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Surprise: The Chinese are now encroaching friends

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  • Surprise: The Chinese are now encroaching friends

    Chinese Coast Guard rams Indonesian vessel.

    The Indonesian vessel was towing a Chinese fishing trawler that was violating Indonesia's EEZ.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-...165903813.html

    What exactly are they thinking?

  • #2
    Originally posted by BKnight3 View Post
    Chinese Coast Guard rams Indonesian vessel.

    The Indonesian vessel was towing a Chinese fishing trawler that was violating Indonesia's EEZ.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-...165903813.html

    What exactly are they thinking?
    The ChiCom's are thinking that their territorial waters include the EEZ's of just about every nation in the Western Pacific.

    Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
    Reality...

    Red China claims the entire South China Sea as territorial waters (not just as an EEZ). This would be like the United States claiming the Caribbean as TW and EEZ and the entire Gulf of Mexico as TW and EEZ.

    The ChiCom terrirtorial claims in the South China Sea are a direct threat to U.S. national security interests...







    The claim is a threat (hazard, imminence, menace, peril, pitfall, risk, danger, trouble). Acting upon that claim is a war. And an accidental war is a real worry...
    Armed Clash in the South China Sea
    Contingency Planning Memorandum No. 14
    Author: Bonnie S. Glaser, Senior Fellow, Center for Strategic and International Studies

    Introduction

    The risk of conflict in the South China Sea is significant. China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, and the Philippines have competing territorial and jurisdictional claims, particularly over rights to exploit the region's possibly extensive reserves of oil and gas. Freedom of navigation in the region is also a contentious issue, especially between the United States and China over the right of U.S. military vessels to operate in China's two-hundred-mile exclusive economic zone (EEZ). These tensions are shaping—and being shaped by—rising apprehensions about the growth of China's military power and its regional intentions. China has embarked on a substantial modernization of its maritime paramilitary forces as well as naval capabilities to enforce its sovereignty and jurisdiction claims by force if necessary. At the same time, it is developing capabilities that would put U.S. forces in the region at risk in a conflict, thus potentially denying access to the U.S. Navy in the western Pacific.

    [...]

    Glaser, Bonnie. "Armed Clash in the South China Sea." Apr 2012. Council on Foreign Relations. Feb 2013.
    Maritime Territorial and Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) Disputes

    The United States is concerned about China’s efforts to keep U.S. military ships and aircraft out of waters and airspace in its Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ), and more recently, about China’s more vigorous assertions of sovereignty over disputed maritime territories in the South and East China Seas, and the potential for these disputes to spin out of control.

    U.S. Military Operations in China’s Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ)

    The issue that may pose the greatest day-to-day threat of inadvertent military confrontation between the United States and China is disagreement over whether the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS)—a treaty to which China but not the United States is a party—gives coastal states a right to regulate foreign military activities in their maritime exclusive economic zones (EEZs). A coastal state’s EEZ generally extends from the edge of its territorial sea (12 nautical miles from its coast) to a distance of 200 nautical miles from its coast. China’s view, which is shared by a small number of other countries, is that it has the legal right under UNCLOS to regulate foreign military activities in its EEZ. The U.S. view, which is shared by most other nations, is that international law as reflected in UNCLOS does not give coastal states this right.

    [...]

    South China Sea

    Tensions among rival claimants to territory in the South China Sea (SCS) have emerged as a major U.S. security concern in the Asia Pacific. China has extensive, though imprecise, claims to large parts of the SCS, which is believed to be rich in oil and gas deposits as well as fisheries, and through which a major portion of world’s trade passes by sea. Territory claimed by China is also claimed in part by Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Vietnam, and in entirety by Taiwan, with the fiercest territorial disputes being those between China and Vietnam and China and the Philippines. In July 2010, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton explicitly declared a U.S. “national interest” in the SCS. The State Department defines that national interest as being in “the maintenance of peace and stability, respect for international law, freedom of navigation, and unimpeded lawful commerce” in the sea.27 The SCS is bordered by a U.S. treaty ally, the Philippines, and is a key strategic waterway for the U.S. Navy.

    [...]

    Lawrence, Susan and MacDonald, David. U.S.-China Relations: Policy Issues. August 2012. Congressional Research Service.



    The U.S. national security interest in the South China Sea is as real as our national security interest in the Persian Gulf. Fromer Secretary of State Clinton reaffirmed this more than two years ago.

    In July 2010, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton explicitly declared a U.S. “national interest” in the SCS. The State Department defines that national interest as being in “the maintenance of peace and stability, respect for international law, freedom of navigation, and unimpeded lawful commerce” in the sea.27 The SCS is bordered by a U.S. treaty ally, the Philippines, and is a key strategic waterway for the U.S. Navy.


    Most everything we import from Southeast Asia transits the South China Sea.

    While we are not directly dependent on the flow of oil through the region...

    The world produces and consumes about 90 million barrels of crude oil per day. About 16% of that oil transits the South China Sea. About 80% of Japan's and 100% of South Korea's oil imports transit the South China Sea. A disruption of this flow would be very detrimental to our economy.

    More directly, the ChiCom's have asserted a non-existent right to "regulate foreign military activities in their maritime exclusive economic zones (EEZs)." EEZ's are not territorial waters. This poses a very real "day-to-day threat of inadvertent military confrontation between the United States and China," particularly since the ChiCom's have been very aggressively asserting their ludicrous EEZ and TW claims again two U.S. treaty allies, Japan and the Philippines.
    Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

    Comment


    • #3
      The thing is Indonesia is (or was) a trusted friend of China.

      Are they actively being the bully they say they aren't?

      Do they WANT a war with the rest of Asia? WTF?

      They're becoming more and more like Russia.

      Comment


      • #4
        As their economy becomes more unstable their foreign policy seems to be following suit.
        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BKnight3 View Post
          The thing is Indonesia is (or was) a trusted friend of China.

          Are they actively being the bully they say they aren't?

          Do they WANT a war with the rest of Asia? WTF?

          They're becoming more and more like Russia.
          Yes.

          No and WTF is correct.

          It's different than Russia. The ChiComs are more like economic Borg.
          Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

          Comment


          • #6
            Don't forget Taiwan's fishing vessels, too.
            "We have no white flag."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BKnight3 View Post
              The Indonesian vessel was towing a Chinese fishing trawler that was violating Indonesia's EEZ.


              What exactly are they thinking?
              They are thinking that it's China's EEZ now.
              Period.

              Comment


              • #8
                Rise and Fall of Chinese Dynasties Tied to Changes in Rainfall

                ""We think that climate played an important role in Chinese history," says paleoclimatologist Hai Cheng of the University of Minnesota, a member of the scientific team that harvested and analyzed the stalagmite from Wanxiang Cave in Gansu Province in northwest China. The stalagmite reveals, for example, that the vital rains of the Asian monsoon weakened at the time of the downfalls of the Tang, Yuan and Ming dynasties over the past 1,810 years."

                http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...hange-chinese/

                These are dangerous times as significant shifts in global power are taking place. With the decline of U.S. Hegemony the conditions for international conflicts will continue to grow. China however has always been focused internally. Outside of it's close neighbors China has historically never shown signs of wanting to use it's military power to conquer large segments of non Asian real estate. In this sense they are very much like the U.S. and it's traditional policy of excluding European powers from the New World.

                The cituation is somewhat different today as China is now engaged in traditional European trade practices. Looking at history we can compare China to Germany prior to WWI. As relative British domination weakened Germany was emboldened to want a piece of the trade and colonialism previously denied them. China today is emboldened by the relative decline of U.S. domination in a similar way.

                The world today is of course very different than it was in 1914 and MAD is still a significant deterrent to international conflict. My worry is that climate change will push China over the edge into careless disregard of what is now a 70 year period of relative peace. The world food reserves are extremely low and it is just a matter of time until a climate event similar to the "little ice age" will trigger widespread starvation unless we are prepared.

                China should however be recognized as a world leader in water security and population control. While the West worries about the non existential threat of Islam China focuses on the real existential threats. The failure of the U.S. to build dams in the face of what appears to be a return to extreme drought in the West is a sign of the desolation of Western civilization under pseudo humanitarian concepts such as multi culturalism and extreme environmentalism. While the new religious cults in the Western European societies are secular they have many of the trappings of religious ideologies that have disrupted civilizations in the past. Unfortunately the new cults are supported by an intellectual community bent on cultural suicide. In this war one can truly measure themselves by the intellect of their enemies.
                We hunt the hunters

                Comment


                • #9
                  To china the entire world is there EEZ
                  you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

                  CPO Mzinyati

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This is actually nothing new. Way way back in Chinese Imperial times it was considered that the world was divided into civilised Chinese and howling ghosts and demons. This division was considered essential to support the need for internal lack of dissension or dispute. Nothing much has changed
                    Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                    Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If their strategy is to antagonize their neighbors, they're succeeding very well...
                      "We have no white flag."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by GMan88 View Post
                        If their strategy is to antagonize their neighbors, they're succeeding very well...
                        If they were true 'communists' they'd offer to share the wealth. Then none would object...
                        Credo quia absurdum.


                        Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                          If they were true 'communists' they'd offer to share the wealth. Then none would object...
                          Then again, there are no other communist countries in Asia... (except maybe for Vietnam?) Oh wait, they ARE offering resource sharing.
                          "We have no white flag."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                            As their economy becomes more unstable their foreign policy seems to be following suit.
                            That's true. Economic instability in China, i.m.o., is a catalyst for a less stable, more bellicose Chinese foreign and military policy in the South China Sea and elsewhere.
                            Mutare vel timere sperno

                            Nec Aspera Terrent

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