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Why Chinese cannot forgive Japanese Imperialism

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  • #61
    Originally posted by GMan88 View Post
    Pls refer to post #16. The lack of closure, and the constant visits by government to the shrine certainly dont help.
    State Shintoism is still "practised ' to some degree, by most Japanese. the 'Kami' of Vanquished soldiers inhabit the shrine, as well as various sites of death.

    I'm not an expert on Kami.
    The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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    • #62
      China, can't forgive, or won't?

      In a nation where all information is controlled, they opened that mass grave up for everyone to come have a look.
      I think the agenda is clear.

      But if Japan really is re-writing their WW2 history as described, then they have it coming.

      Fascinating to me, watching the famously rational Asian folks tying themselves in knots like this.
      Makes them seem more Western every year.... and that ain't such a good thing.
      "Why is the Rum gone?"

      -Captain Jack

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by IDonT4 View Post
        The reason why China hates Japan is very simple: lack of revenge. Next to the USSR, China suffered the most damage of any country in WWII. While the USSR ultimately made the Germans pay for their attack, China never did.
        Yup it was not a Chinese battleship that was the scene of the surrender in 1945 after all.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Salinator View Post
          For the West, it was only temporary hatred because Japan was their darling little David that killed two giants in within one decade in First Sino-Japanese War and Russo-Japanese War. The Japanese was romanticized as a gentle humble people with a great warrior culture while the Chinese was seen in a totally different light. Great stuff was written about the code of bushido that is still exaggerated and misrepresented by Western and Japanese media, although the Japanese have broken the first code of bushido in every war. Japan did not have Europeans carving up their country nor opium and tobacco shoved down their faces, misled into a life of coolie labor with false promises. The worst thing that ever happened to them was some US gunboats in Tokyo Bay.

          China had her neutrality violated early in WWI when Britain and France's ally Japan invaded Chinese territory to fight the Germans and Austro-Hungarians. China was enticed to enter the war on the side of the Allies with false promises that she would regain her territories held by the Central Powers. The territories were instead given to Japan which did fuel her appetite for more conquests. China was invited to Versailles, but walked away and signed an independent treaty with Germany after being shunned by the Big Three. China did not demand reparations from Germany. As a result, Germany was China's greatest supporter until Germany and Japan signed Axis Pact.

          By 1939, the Chinese had fought the Japanese to a stalemate. No country fought more major battles against Japan and killed more Japanese combatants than China. Like the Soviet Union, she paid with the blood of her people and the scourge of her land.

          Now to this day, there is a dismissive attitude about her role and sacrifice. You can see that here on this very thread. In other threads, there have been remarks about no major battle.....false, no climatic battle ala Staligrad....false, never taking the fight to the enemy....false, only fight each other....false, and so on and so on. Some would have you believe that the Flying Tigers was the only fighting that occurred against the Japanese! By the way, Japanese history books only acknowledge it with a brief mention as the "Chinese Incident", but they were apparently there just for humanitarian reasons.

          Can you not see how pissed they are? The same goes with the rest of Asia. Like the Americans did all the fighting in the Philippines and the Filipinos did nothing from the time Douglas MacArthur left until he triumphantly announced his return with all the cameras pointed at him as he waded onto the sand of Leyte. How about the Koreans that had their names changed to Japanese and were forcibly recruited as comfort women and camp guards with a newly created rank to be lower than a Japanese private? Everyone deserves to be pissed at the Japanese over WWII.
          You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Salinator again.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
            China, can't forgive, or won't?

            In a nation where all information is controlled, they opened that mass grave up for everyone to come have a look.
            I think the agenda is clear.

            But if Japan really is re-writing their WW2 history as described, then they have it coming.

            Fascinating to me, watching the famously rational Asian folks tying themselves in knots like this.
            Makes them seem more Western every year.... and that ain't such a good thing.

            It's not just China, South Korea and Taiwan are pretty pissed off too.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by marktwain View Post
              State Shintoism is still "practised ' to some degree, by most Japanese. the 'Kami' of Vanquished soldiers inhabit the shrine, as well as various sites of death.

              I'm not an expert on Kami.
              China and South Korea are pretty reasonable. The Japanese Prime minister is free to visit the shrine as private citizen. Just don't do it as an official visit by the Prime Minister.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by IDonT4 View Post
                China and South Korea are pretty reasonable. The Japanese Prime minister is free to visit the shrine as private citizen. Just don't do it as an official visit by the Prime Minister.
                Why not? Regardless of the political direction they served, those men died in the service of their country. Many of the men they died fighting would be in battle with UN forces just a few years later.

                I'm no fan of Imperial Japan, but those soldiers fought for their country. I would not honor them, but I fully recognize their nation's right to honor them for their sacrifice.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                  Why not? Regardless of the political direction they served, those men died in the service of their country. Many of the men they died fighting would be in battle with UN forces just a few years later.

                  I'm no fan of Imperial Japan, but those soldiers fought for their country. I would not honor them, but I fully recognize their nation's right to honor them for their sacrifice.
                  Why not? Because the Shrine honors 14 Class A war criminals as well as 1,000 other war criminals in the Book of Souls. This whole fiasco would be fixed if Japan take those men out but they won't.

                  Its equivalent to having a a German Chancellor visiting a memorial that includes Goering, Hitler, and Himmler.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by IDonT4 View Post
                    Why not? Because the Shrine entombs 14 Class A war criminals as well as 1,000 other war criminals. This whole fiasco would be fixed if Japan take those men out but they won't.

                    Its equivalent to having a a German Chancellor visiting a memorial that includes Goering, Hitler, and Himmler.
                    Class A? Which category system are you referring to?

                    The Germans routinely honor their war dead.

                    That shrine represents all Japanese war dead. Its not like they're singling out one individual.

                    Much ado about nothing.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                      Class A? Which category system are you referring to?
                      A little bit of research before you reply would go a long way.

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controv...asukuni_Shrine


                      The Germans routinely honor their war dead.
                      Yes, but their war dead do not include top Nazi leaderships, concentration camp wardens, and other war criminals.

                      That shrine represents all Japanese war dead. Its not like they're singling out one individual.
                      But they do. Their names are listed there in the registry there. As I said before, getting rid of their names would solve the matter. But Japan won't do that.

                      Much ado about nothing
                      Clearly you need education about this matter if you think that.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                        China, can't forgive, or won't?

                        In a nation where all information is controlled, they opened that mass grave up for everyone to come have a look.
                        I think the agenda is clear.

                        But if Japan really is re-writing their WW2 history as described, then they have it coming.

                        Fascinating to me, watching the famously rational Asian folks tying themselves in knots like this.
                        Makes them seem more Western every year.... and that ain't such a good thing.
                        100% in agreement.
                        Nice is heavy on my mind.
                        I pray and wish the best for France.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by IDonT4 View Post
                          Yes, but their war dead do not include top Nazi leaderships, concentration camp wardens, and other war criminals.
                          Actually, they do, albeit not as specifically that. Only a few per cent of those involved in the holocaust were ever prosecuted. The rest are honored along with the ordinary members of the military and SS.

                          Originally posted by IDonT4 View Post
                          But they do. Their names are listed there in the registry there. As I said before, getting rid of their names would solve the matter. But Japan won't do that.
                          So? Its their country and their shrine.

                          Originally posted by IDonT4 View Post
                          Clearly you need education about this matter if you think that.
                          Clearly you need to grow up a great deal. What the Japanese think or do not think will not undo a single victim's suffering. The participants are all dead or soon to pass. Its much ado about nothing.

                          Seventy years after the fact is a little late to start complaining.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                            Actually, they do, albeit not as specifically that. Only a few per cent of those involved in the holocaust were ever prosecuted. The rest are honored along with the ordinary members of the military and SS.
                            Show me a German shrine, which sitting members of the Germany government routinely visit, that also honors Hitler, Himmler, and Goering and you have an argument.

                            So? Its their country and their shrine.
                            Yes that is their right, however, the also need to accept the consequences of that action.

                            Clearly you need to grow up a great deal. What the Japanese think or do not think will not undo a single victim's suffering. The participants are all dead or soon to pass. Its much ado about nothing.

                            Seventy years after the fact is a little late to start complaining.
                            The participants are dead yes, but Japan's constant denial or glossing over Japanese atrocities of WWII history is the reason why they are not forgiven. Isn't that the reason for this thread?

                            As I said, you need an education on this matter.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by IDonT4 View Post
                              Show me a German shrine, which sitting members of the Germany government routinely visit, that also honors Hitler, Himmler, and Goering and you have an argument.


                              None of those three are 'war dead'. But every German village & town have memorials to those who fell in WW2.


                              Originally posted by IDonT4 View Post
                              Yes that is their right, however, the also need to accept the consequences of that action.
                              Looks like they have. So get over it.


                              Originally posted by IDonT4 View Post
                              The participants are dead yes, but Japan's constant denial or glossing over Japanese atrocities of WWII history is the reason why they are not forgiven. Isn't that the reason for this thread?
                              No, the reason for this thread is to debate.

                              Originally posted by IDonT4 View Post
                              As I said, you need an education on this matter.
                              As I said, you need to grow up. Maturity will help you a great deal.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                                None of those three are 'war dead'. But every German village & town have memorials to those who fell in WW2.
                                Hideki Tōjō, Seishirō Itagaki, Heitarō Kimura, Kenji Doihara, Akira Mutō, Kōki Hirota are not war dead either yet they are honored in the Shrine.

                                Again show me a German shrine, which sitting members of the German government routinely visit , that also honors Hitler, Himmler, and Goering and you have an argument

                                Looks like they have. So get over it.
                                No they haven't.


                                No, the reason for this thread is to debate.
                                Debate what? The thread asked why China can't forgive Japan. I gave you an answer.


                                As I said, you need to grow up. Maturity will help you a great deal.
                                I wrote to you in another thread that people resort to personal attacks when they have nothing to respond. By the way, I still need you to show me which Chinese frontline fighters that they are CURRENTLY developing are "short legged."

                                Comment

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