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  • Romeo Dallaire and Rwanda

    CBC archives link.
    http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-71-1686...omeo_dallaire/

  • #2
    Thanks Duncan for the link. Great info.
    "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
    - Col. David Hackworth

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    • #3
      Dallaire's book, Shake Hands With the Devil is a must-read...But it's tough to stomach.
      Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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      • #4
        Just finished watching a French movie about the genocide. It was filmed at the actual locations in Rwanda. I still find it hard to believe the extent that the world community abandoned the victims. But I guess, that's Africa!
        War. Young men killing each other for the benefit of old men!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by leatchy View Post
          Just finished watching a French movie about the genocide. It was filmed at the actual locations in Rwanda. I still find it hard to believe the extent that the world community abandoned the victims. But I guess, that's Africa!
          Africa is always a nightmare to solve conflicts in. The african logic is special in the way that it actually totally lacks any signs of logic. This is something that is recognized in almost every conflict that ravaged the continent during modern years.

          I would second the recommendation on Dallaire´s book.
          "The secret of war lies in the communications" - Napoleon Bonaparte

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Pergite View Post
            Africa is always a nightmare to solve conflicts in. The african logic is special in the way that it actually totally lacks any signs of logic. This is something that is recognized in almost every conflict that ravaged the continent during modern years.

            I would second the recommendation on Dallaire´s book.
            Care to back up that gross generalisation of a whole continent of people of diverse cultures, ethnic backgrounds and histories? There may well be groups like the Lord's Resistance Army, the RUF and others whose activities border on the insane but to state that Africans (again a whole continent of people who are not the same) are devoid of logic seems a remarkably ill informed comment. As for the conflicts being devoid of logic perhaps you just do nt know enough about their backgrounds and origins.

            As for Dallaire and the UN troops who remained during the conflict I have nothing but respect for what they did and tried to do.
            "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
            G.B Shaw

            "They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
            Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Sergio View Post
              Care to back up that gross generalisation of a whole continent of people of diverse cultures, ethnic backgrounds and histories? There may well be groups like the Lord's Resistance Army, the RUF and others whose activities border on the insane but to state that Africans (again a whole continent of people who are not the same) are devoid of logic seems a remarkably ill informed comment. As for the conflicts being devoid of logic perhaps you just do nt know enough about their backgrounds and origins.
              I meant "african logic" as part of african modern day conflicts, not as a generalisation on how a whole contintent manages they daily lives. Such a comment would certainly have been a remarkably ill informed comment.
              I happen to have pretty good insight in military planning and operations in the area during the recent years, and the trust me that backgrouns and origins isnt something that you can use as a guide to predict neither conflicts or course of actions of actors. Maybe the logic can be reverse engineered with the help of hindsight, but that is seldom to any help in the real time world.
              "The secret of war lies in the communications" - Napoleon Bonaparte

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              • #8
                Having served in Rwanda, It would have taken a small amount of highly switched on military force to stop the Genocide, before it even started. Lack of response from the West, gave the Politicos the green light that they could operate with impunity. That is the overriding tragedy.

                I too, Highy recommend General Dallaire´s Book.
                Last edited by PzKfwBob; 09 Oct 07, 22:53.
                Eternal War(gaming) Armoured Struggle Car Bob

                History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis.
                Lazarus Long

                Draw the blinds on yesterday and it's all so much scarier....
                David Bowie

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by PzKfwBob View Post
                  Having served in Rwanda, It would have taken a small amount of highly switched on military force to stop the Genocide, before it even started. Lack of response from the West, gave the Politicos the green light that they could operate with impunity. That is the overriding tragedy.

                  I too, Highy recommend General Dallaire´s Book.

                  Rwanda was the perfect example of that old saying about evil triumphing when good men stand idle.
                  War. Young men killing each other for the benefit of old men!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by leatchy View Post
                    Rwanda was the perfect example of that old saying about evil triumphing when good men stand idle.
                    Yes it was in the large sense, but I will never forget General Dallaire's (and others ) resolve to try and be the good man speaking out about the Evil, and then to be slapped down in the most callous way.
                    Eternal War(gaming) Armoured Struggle Car Bob

                    History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis.
                    Lazarus Long

                    Draw the blinds on yesterday and it's all so much scarier....
                    David Bowie

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by PzKfwBob View Post
                      Yes it was in the large sense, but I will never forget General Dallaire's (and others ) resolve to try and be the good man speaking out about the Evil, and then to be slapped down in the most callous way.
                      Couldn't agree with you more. The international community stands condemed for the Rwandan genocide. I am quite sure that Dalliere will not be the last peacekeeping commander left helpless in a situation spiralling out of control.
                      War. Young men killing each other for the benefit of old men!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by leatchy View Post
                        The international community stands condemed for the Rwandan genocide.
                        What exactly did you expect? Even the US won't sign treaties prohibiting genocide, and many other countries won't either. It isn't exactly in the best interest of a government do so, you know, it's the "keep your options open" thing.

                        Originally posted by leatchy View Post
                        I am quite sure that Dalliere will not be the last peacekeeping commander left helpless in a situation spiralling out of control.
                        In what way was Dalliere left helpless?

                        He was a UN Observer was he not? Then what's the issue? The UN Charter explicitly states quite clearly in no uncertain terms that the UN has absolutely no authority whatsoever to intervene in the internal domestic affairs of a state. That is not by accident, that is by design and intent and you can congratulate the US, UK and France for that.

                        It is the express mission of the UN to restore peace and order, not prevent it.

                        As a point of fact, it was only after Tutsi refugees fled across the border to Burundi and started to create political problems for the Burundian government that permitted the internal conflict to now be characterized as an international conflict, which gave the UN authority to take action.

                        Of course, we might want to ask who were the Big Brains who so brilliantly drew the political boundaries that cut through tribal boundaries creating minority ethnic groups in countries in the first place?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                          Dallaire's book, Shake Hands With the Devil is a must-read...But it's tough to stomach.
                          There is also a documentary (not to be confused with the current movie) about his return 10 years later. It's equally challenging. I had to watch it in two sittings.

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                          • #14
                            I wouldn't want to spend a dime let alone put my life on the line to stop a Tutsi from killing a ... whatever he wants to kill (don't remember the name). It was not the job of Europe or the US to intervene. There is the African Union, a thing that is very good at whining about colonialism and 'white devils'. Maybe they should have done something.

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                            • #15
                              Most Rwandans, Tutsl and Hutu, wanted peace. They had a real shot at turning Rwanda into a peaceful democracy.

                              The world - the whole world - failed miserably here. Romeo Dallaire is a genuine hero.
                              Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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