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  • African peacekeepers in Africa

    Hi

    Hope this is of some interest (my emphasis):-
    African states today are strongly encouraged by the United States (US) and other members of the international community to play a more central role in confronting crises on the continent. Indeed, in recent years African armed forces have increasingly served as the backbone supporting various peacekeeping operations in the region. It is important to add that the international community has frequently tried to facilitate the deployment of African armed forces with aid and training. From this reality, the following study goes beyond the current literature by focusing on the international factors behind African participation in United Nations (UN) peacekeeping operations in Africa. In doing so, this research focuses on US military aid and foreign troop training from 2002 to 2012, and its impact on African deployments into UN peacekeeping missions in Africa. As can be expected, such third-party help appears to be an important motivating factor encouraging African troop deployment into crises on the continent.
    http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/...29.2014.993668
    "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

    "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

  • #2
    Andy - The thought of regular pay and foreign totty??????

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    • #3
      The President of Burundi is openly opposing any such move, particularly a projected 5,000 man Peacekeeping force from ANC nations, wanting to bring a stop to the recent Hutu/Tutsi violence that has reared its ugly head yet again.

      When will Africa realise that Tribalism is the root of most of their social peoblems?
      When will dictatorships in africa be replaced by reponsible governemnts, exercising the will of the governed, rather than degenerating into tribal factionism?
      Where is the great South Africa in all of this? For all the rehetoric about a New Nation for Change, and all the positive values and happenings, the African politicians of South africa still sit on their hands while their nieghbours and other nations pull themselves apart. they can afford it, so why don't they ACT?

      I have heard it said of Africa that you can put a big fence around it and eventually, one man will emerge, with a retinue of tribal cronies, to rule the lot, and he will always find outsiders of some description to do the dirty work for him, as Idi Amin did recruiting Nubians with no Ugandan ties to run his "State Research Beaureau", a label for a torture chamber.

      Africa can't get its act together, and until it starts to, my family absolutely refuse to give any money to the place and its humanitarian need. Self imposed human rights abuses based on tribalism and greed don't wash for a minute with us.

      Are black Africans incapable of running governments without corruption, moral degeneration and ethnic/tribal cleansing?

      It would seem so.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by Drusus Nero View Post
        The President of Burundi is openly opposing any such move, particularly a projected 5,000 man Peacekeeping force from ANC nations, wanting to bring a stop to the recent Hutu/Tutsi violence that has reared its ugly head yet again.

        When will Africa realise that Tribalism is the root of most of their social peoblems?
        When will dictatorships in africa be replaced by reponsible governemnts, exercising the will of the governed, rather than degenerating into tribal factionism?
        Where is the great South Africa in all of this? For all the rehetoric about a New Nation for Change, and all the positive values and happenings, the African politicians of South africa still sit on their hands while their nieghbours and other nations pull themselves apart. they can afford it, so why don't they ACT?

        I have heard it said of Africa that you can put a big fence around it and eventually, one man will emerge, with a retinue of tribal cronies, to rule the lot, and he will always find outsiders of some description to do the dirty work for him, as Idi Amin did recruiting Nubians with no Ugandan ties to run his "State Research Beaureau", a label for a torture chamber.

        Africa can't get its act together, and until it starts to, my family absolutely refuse to give any money to the place and its humanitarian need. Self imposed human rights abuses based on tribalism and greed don't wash for a minute with us.

        Are black Africans incapable of running governments without corruption, moral degeneration and ethnic/tribal cleansing?

        It would seem so.
        Nothing like a bit of racism to inform your opinions.
        "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
        G.B Shaw

        "They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
        Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

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        • #5
          There is a cultural aspect to all this as well. Western and Asian civilizations developed on their own to a highly advanced level, not just technologically but societally. The Middle East was on that track as well for awhile but their arguably still living in a post (Ottoman) imperial collapse that they haven't crawled out of yet. The religious civil war certainly isn't helping there.

          African cultue on the other hand is largely still tribal in culture, even more so than the Middle East and that is the root of most of their problems. If i poverty and lack of education were their only problems Africa would look like South America, not like it does now. Africa never developed the kind of social national culture you see in the West and Asia before Europe took over the whole continent. They got some infrastructure out of it but in the end the colonial powers left and basically said you can govern yourselves now, good luck. So you end up with a bunch of tribal societies that were only recently pulled out of the stone age that have access to cheap plentiful weapondry and not much else. Constant warfare isn't exactly hard to see coming in that situation.
          "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

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          • #6
            The last time I looked, the majority of African governemnts were run by black africans.

            so, it goes logically, that you have to accuse black africans of failing to provide for their own people.

            If you want to label that as "racism", you are the only one so far. It seems we cannot use the word "black" in a sentence critical of Africa and Africans without some kind of 'racism' button being pushed.

            And If I'm so wrong, give me even one example of a national group run by tribal lines which hasnt degenerated into corruption, factionalism along tribal lines, mepotism, cronyism, and plain murder.

            It happens further north in Africa as well. Libyans seem incapable of getting their act together. Egyptians are perennially short of everything except tourists, despite all the goodwill of freindly relations.

            Chad...a mess..
            Burundi, Uganda, rhodesia, etc etc etc...all run like a tribal kraal with no reponsibility from the upper escelons of their repective socities.

            Even south america, known for dictatorship and corruption, can, at a strecth, run governments without resorting to wholesale slaughter anymore. Brazil seems to be breaking that for the benefit of the World Cup and the Olympics, both of which should never have been held in a country with so many people living way below the poverty line.

            But Africa? As soon as colonialism departed, old tribalism took hold, and lo! countries that could feed themselves under colonial rule suddenly become wastelands, famine ridden, and uncontrollable in terms of their internal affairs.

            I wash my hands of Africa. We turn off tear jerking advertisments immediately. "Live Aid" and other charities are just pouring money and resources down a never ending sinkhole.

            Racism? When is TRIBAL Africa going to wake up to itself?
            My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

            Soviet Submarines in WW2....The Mythology of Shiloh....(Edited) Both Sides of the Warsaw Ghetto
            GULAG Glossary....Who Really Killed The Red Baron?....Pearl Harbor At 75
            Lincoln-Douglas Debates

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            • #7
              Case in point...the recent abduction and disappearence of an Australian couple, two teachers, who, at their own expense, have spent many years in Africa teaching, providing, working for very little, all to educate and make significant change.

              They represent a THREAT. You cant have 'free' education, particularly not to people that you wish to remain ignorant.

              I tire of hearing the same old sentiments and excuses. It high time Africans started to get their act together, and feed themselves, provide clean water and education, basic medical care, at least.

              No. They'd rather continue the same old crap thats been prevalent ever since people have existed there. There is no sense in hanging on to traditional practices when the obvious lack of services and basic needs are not being met.

              Africa can feed itself quite well. Africa can pay it's own modest bills quite well. Africa has enough natural resources to last many thousands of years.

              why isn't it happening then?
              My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

              Soviet Submarines in WW2....The Mythology of Shiloh....(Edited) Both Sides of the Warsaw Ghetto
              GULAG Glossary....Who Really Killed The Red Baron?....Pearl Harbor At 75
              Lincoln-Douglas Debates

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Drusus Nero View Post
                The last time I looked, the majority of African governemnts were run by black africans.

                so, it goes logically, that you have to accuse black africans of failing to provide for their own people.

                If you want to label that as "racism", you are the only one so far. It seems we cannot use the word "black" in a sentence critical of Africa and Africans without some kind of 'racism' button being pushed.

                And If I'm so wrong, give me even one example of a national group run by tribal lines which hasnt degenerated into corruption, factionalism along tribal lines, mepotism, cronyism, and plain murder.

                It happens further north in Africa as well. Libyans seem incapable of getting their act together. Egyptians are perennially short of everything except tourists, despite all the goodwill of freindly relations.

                Chad...a mess..
                Burundi, Uganda, rhodesia, etc etc etc...all run like a tribal kraal with no reponsibility from the upper escelons of their repective socities.

                Even south america, known for dictatorship and corruption, can, at a strecth, run governments without resorting to wholesale slaughter anymore. Brazil seems to be breaking that for the benefit of the World Cup and the Olympics, both of which should never have been held in a country with so many people living way below the poverty line.

                But Africa? As soon as colonialism departed, old tribalism took hold, and lo! countries that could feed themselves under colonial rule suddenly become wastelands, famine ridden, and uncontrollable in terms of their internal affairs.

                I wash my hands of Africa. We turn off tear jerking advertisments immediately. "Live Aid" and other charities are just pouring money and resources down a never ending sinkhole.

                Racism? When is TRIBAL Africa going to wake up to itself?

                Thats a very narrow minded view point and forgets the masive out side invlunce on many African countries.


                Botswana is considerd to be prety uncorupt and even though South Africa is corrupt it was just not if not worse during apartheid.

                You named 3 countries and a former country. There are 54 countries in Africa.


                Of the 54 countries in Africa how many are dictatorships and how many "slaughterd people to stay in power"


                Again 54 countries. Many african countries did fine, many african countries failed because there was no one there qulfied to run the place and the entire country was set up to support the econmies of the colonizing country. A few ended up in wars that draged on and on thanks to cold war and in a few cases a African leader was disposed of due to the acstions or request of outside powers. Most places though stayed more or lesz the same. Dont kid your self to think every one had food when the white man was in power. Colonial control gor the most part was bery urban.


                There is nothing wrong with tribal Africa. South Africa is tribal and has notvgot tribal violence or tribal corruption.
                you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

                CPO Mzinyati

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Drusus Nero View Post
                  Case in point...the recent abduction and disappearence of an Australian couple, two teachers, who, at their own expense, have spent many years in Africa teaching, providing, working for very little, all to educate and make significant change.

                  They represent a THREAT. You cant have 'free' education, particularly not to people that you wish to remain ignorant.

                  I tire of hearing the same old sentiments and excuses. It high time Africans started to get their act together, and feed themselves, provide clean water and education, basic medical care, at least.

                  No. They'd rather continue the same old crap thats been prevalent ever since people have existed there. There is no sense in hanging on to traditional practices when the obvious lack of services and basic needs are not being met.

                  Africa can feed itself quite well. Africa can pay it's own modest bills quite well. Africa has enough natural resources to last many thousands of years.

                  why isn't it happening then?

                  How AQ the fault of Africa. How do uou expt Africa to stop AQ when NATO cant stop them in Afghanistan. If the most powerful miltary alliance cant stop attacks how can Burkina Faso. By the way Burkina Faso and her people had nothing wrong with them.

                  Sure natrual resources means what when its in the ground. You know the very devise you posted you BS on contians minerals dug up with hand tools in the DRC. The mine was probaly ownened by a warlord or corrupt miltary official (badicaly a warlord) so resources dont really mean all that mutch.
                  you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

                  CPO Mzinyati

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Fine. Lets let genrations to come of africans that cannot run their own affairs forever blame colonialism and the long departed thereof.

                    We won't be contributing to their mess until real steps are taken to mange their own affairs in a humane manner.

                    You can buy all the excuses in the world. I don't.

                    Colonialism disappeared many decades ago. And it's still an excuse for the woes of the people?

                    Thats explains why we have many immigrants from africa now, Ugandans, Nigerians, Ivory Coasters, just to name a few. conditions are so great in Africa that these wonderful people here cannot give their own country the benfit of their education and experience.

                    Its just an excuse. Narrow minded? If I am, what does that make the average warlord or dictatorship in the African continent?

                    They have the education, they have the resources, and they have the arable land and knowhow to give it a go.

                    Yep. It all the fault of colonialism....will you be saying that in ten generations, when tribal Africa still hasn't gotten its act together, when western funded charities still contribute money that partially or wholely disappears into the pockets of the powerful.?

                    Yep...it's all our fault alright.
                    My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

                    Soviet Submarines in WW2....The Mythology of Shiloh....(Edited) Both Sides of the Warsaw Ghetto
                    GULAG Glossary....Who Really Killed The Red Baron?....Pearl Harbor At 75
                    Lincoln-Douglas Debates

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                    • #11
                      Ok...I'll defer to the people of this forum that know better.

                      HOW do we end the mess?
                      HOW do we make sure that people can run their own affairs?
                      How can we get them back to the stage where they can at least be self sufficient in food, water cleanliness, and other measures that are vastly important?

                      I'm all ears...let the solutions FLOW....

                      BTW...any solutions needing huge amounts of western help arent really solutions. How do we get Africans themselves to manage their own people in a manner that does not lead them to wholesale murder, corruption, tribal genocide, etc etc etc...

                      So, i'll just sit back and let the experts tell ME how its to happen...

                      Over to you....
                      My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

                      Soviet Submarines in WW2....The Mythology of Shiloh....(Edited) Both Sides of the Warsaw Ghetto
                      GULAG Glossary....Who Really Killed The Red Baron?....Pearl Harbor At 75
                      Lincoln-Douglas Debates

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Drusus Nero View Post
                        Fine. Lets let genrations to come of africans that cannot run their own affairs forever blame colonialism and the long departed thereof.

                        We won't be contributing to their mess until real steps are taken to mange their own affairs in a humane manner.

                        You can buy all the excuses in the world. I don't.

                        Colonialism disappeared many decades ago. And it's still an excuse for the woes of the people?

                        Thats explains why we have many immigrants from africa now, Ugandans, Nigerians, Ivory Coasters, just to name a few. conditions are so great in Africa that these wonderful people here cannot give their own country the benfit of their education and experience.

                        Its just an excuse. Narrow minded? If I am, what does that make the average warlord or dictatorship in the African continent?

                        They have the education, they have the resources, and they have the arable land and knowhow to give it a go.

                        Yep. It all the fault of colonialism....will you be saying that in ten generations, when tribal Africa still hasn't gotten its act together, when western funded charities still contribute money that partially or wholely disappears into the pockets of the powerful.?

                        Yep...it's all our fault alright.
                        Opsit is happening. Many are fast growing econmies that are trying to build up there industrial base. Even old basket cases like Ethiopia are improving and current crap holes like Nigeria have areas that well crap all so have thriving business areas. I mean the ritches man Nigeria and Africa sells concreat not oil.


                        Seeing how the african rensance began after the 1990s you know when the cold war ended. I would say thats fine and dandy. USAID actually does more harm thsn good by destroying the livly hoods of farmers who cant compete by selling there cropsvagainst free food foring them to become dependent of free food.


                        Yeah because the place was left in a mess with zero trained people to run the place. South Africa is so well ofg because the colonial power decided to stay.

                        My mother works in Europe. She works there for one resoane. Money. Even a unemployed person in Europe earns more than me. So yeah why eont people want that.

                        Warlords and dictors are selfish. You think mugby is suffering. No he is rolling in money and power.

                        They have it now. 60 to 70 years ago they did not have the education. Many African counties have fast growing economies.


                        10 genrastions from now America may be receiving Aid from African counties. As it is Africa is growing. Sure it painful but growing.
                        you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

                        CPO Mzinyati

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                        • #13
                          Gosh sir, i hope you are correct.

                          but one thing, though, i don't seriously expect Africa as a whole to become an exporter of aid to anywhere, anytime.

                          their Tribal traditions will see to that.

                          I do hope you are right.

                          I know, or am aquainted with, a man called ROBERT. I'm a security guard at something called the Berrimah Experimental Farm. Robert is a researcher from Uganda, and is here studying bats and their diseases that spring from them.

                          I got talking to Robert, one night when he locked his car keys in his car, and I drove him back to his flat to get a spare set. On the way, we got talking about Ugandan affairs. I asked him whether the country had recovered from amin yet. He asked me "How do you know so much about my country? You talk like a Ugandan."

                          I told him my primary source was HENRY KYEMBA and his book, "State of blood". He said "Ahhh, yes, Kyemba..." and we talked for a great length of time about what Ugandans REALLY need to do to get back to the same state they were when the British were around..."The Jewel of Africa".

                          He told me I knew more about the affairs of his country, both recent and under Idi Amin, than most Ugandans were aware of. That surprised me.

                          Robert is a nice person. and he's going back to Uganda to give the country the benefit of his education, rather than running to our country and throwing up his hands to leave it for others to do.

                          I hope, fervently, that other Africans like him follow suit.

                          And that makes Robert a GREAT MAN
                          My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

                          Soviet Submarines in WW2....The Mythology of Shiloh....(Edited) Both Sides of the Warsaw Ghetto
                          GULAG Glossary....Who Really Killed The Red Baron?....Pearl Harbor At 75
                          Lincoln-Douglas Debates

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                          • #14
                            Any time soon ? No but 10 genrastions is enough time to see a empire rise and fall.


                            Africa has issues yes. Deep seetef issues and westerners blaming tribalism are correct, Africans blaming the legacy of colonial sytems are correct. In some cases they the same. I mean i will use south africa has a example. Its a new country only been arround since the turn of the 1900s. Before that it was a zule kingdom, khosa kingdom, sevral white states and colonial areas and a number of small African groups. The British decided they whete all one country. They left out Lesotho but we fine with that.
                            you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

                            CPO Mzinyati

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                            • #15
                              The "blame colonialism" excuse always bothers me. Regardless of your view on the morality of it you have to admit that it gave a lot of these places a developmental leg up from where they started. Without it they'd have started back where they were before Europe showed up. No roads, no railroads, communication, no modern buildings, no infrastructure of any kind, no ports or airfields for trade, no medicine and no modern ideas to build on. Nationalism is all well and good but don't let it blind you historical fact. The same could be said for the US. There would have been nothing here to form a nation around were it not for Britain, France and the Dutch. The same goes for Africa. Criticize their means all you want but the fact remains that colonialism pulled that continent out of the stone age or at least started too. Seems it didn't take in some places.
                              "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

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