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Star Trek, the movie [MAJOR SPOILERS]

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  • #76
    I don't know, I see the Pon farr as the cog that makes or breaks the Vulcans.

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    • #77
      As someone pointed it out the Romulan ship design was kinda weird for a Romulan ship design....at first I thought it was a new race. With all the tentacle and spike never thought it was Romulan but something lot more evilish.

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      • #78
        I wonder why the captain of the Romulan ship sat in one place for 25 years and never flew to Romulus and told them what was going to happen!!

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        • #79
          Now now. Such logical thinking may be worthy of a Vulcan, but it won't contribute to the general enjoyment of the film!

          Suspension of disbelief and rational thinking is a requirement.

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          • #80
            Posted by Redwolf:

            "Because all the fans know all the details of the old timeline, but the writers do not, or those who do feel it is constraining them too much."


            Then they are not much of a writer. Shatner himself wrote a series of Star Trek novels based on the established universe and utilizing the established characters from all of the series which were/are some of the best Trek material ever published.

            If Shatner can do it......

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            • #81
              Well...

              Writing a story that takes place in an alternate reality is fine by me. But the real question is: why can't writers even write a story that revolves around Deep Space Nine, Voyager, or even Captain Archer's NX-01 Enterprise?

              I think it's possible to develop a story that will accept new fans and still stick with the established Star Trek universe.

              Don't get me wrong, I think the new Star Trek movie is a good one, it's just that I wish writers could write something about the other spin-offs, as well.

              Dan
              Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

              "Aim small, miss small."

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              • #82
                The problem is not so much lack of scripts, the problem is funding. How many investors are lined up out there to make Star Trek movies? Lots of other movies are cheaper and more likely to show a profit.

                I would love to see the MacAusland series (by Fraser) of short stories make it to the screen/TV, but who will fund it? You could shoot the North Africa scenes in Spain, but the whole thing could get expensive fast. Besides, who could play MacAusland? Would the Scots have proper Glasgow accents?

                Pruitt
                Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                • #83
                  Just saw it. Awesome!

                  It's like getting back the favourite toy you had as a kid. We have the original Enterprise and those great characters ready for fresh adventures.

                  And all the old stuff still 'exists' in the 'primary' time line.

                  I think it's the best of everything.
                  Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study logistics.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Cheetah772 View Post
                    Well...

                    Writing a story that takes place in an alternate reality is fine by me. But the real question is: why can't writers even write a story that revolves around Deep Space Nine, Voyager, or even Captain Archer's NX-01 Enterprise?

                    I think it's possible to develop a story that will accept new fans and still stick with the established Star Trek universe.

                    Don't get me wrong, I think the new Star Trek movie is a good one, it's just that I wish writers could write something about the other spin-offs, as well.

                    Dan
                    The old Star Trek universe was just too locked in.

                    This is the major reason why Star Trek: Voyager was playing out by just going to a different part of the Galaxy where they have no contact with the established universe. Fans didn't like it too much (they actually wanted to see familiar things) and not-yet fans thought it's plain weird.

                    It is also the reason why there were so many episodes of all series that played in some dream, in some time loop or some other excuse why events in there don't contaminate the real universe with more facts that later scripts have to be bug-compatible to.

                    %%

                    If you ask me, the attempt to revive Star Trek is done now because after a spree of exiting fresh TV shows (Lost, Alias, Desperate Housewifes, countless others) that first dominated the market and killed Star Trek those series now ended or fanned out. New impulses are needed, creative new stuff. Relative success of Battlestar Galactica and some other science fiction shows make Star Trek as good an option as any since it will generate a lot of buzz. If you can fix the creative deadlock created by about a thousand TV episodes and other major sources.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Redwolf View Post
                      The old Star Trek universe was just too locked in.

                      This is the major reason why Star Trek: Voyager was playing out by just going to a different part of the Galaxy where they have no contact with the established universe. Fans didn't like it too much (they actually wanted to see familiar things) and not-yet fans thought it's plain weird.

                      It is also the reason why there were so many episodes of all series that played in some dream, in some time loop or some other excuse why events in there don't contaminate the real universe with more facts that later scripts have to be bug-compatible to.

                      %%

                      If you ask me, the attempt to revive Star Trek is done now because after a spree of exiting fresh TV shows (Lost, Alias, Desperate Housewifes, countless others) that first dominated the market and killed Star Trek those series now ended or fanned out. New impulses are needed, creative new stuff. Relative success of Battlestar Galactica and some other science fiction shows make Star Trek as good an option as any since it will generate a lot of buzz. If you can fix the creative deadlock created by about a thousand TV episodes and other major sources.
                      Agreed, you won't get any argument from me.

                      Even so, I've always had this fantastical notion that one day writers might sketch out a storyline about Earth-Romulus War that led to the forming of Federation.

                      It would involve a lot of action, gritty reality thing, gore, massive ship battles, and the final result ends in a historic victory for Earth-led alliance forces.

                      Look at Deep Space Nine, it's no wonder that Season 5 to 7 (three years) are considered the BEST in Star Trek universe. The final episode where 800 million Cardassians were massacred is downright chilly and excellent at the same time. It demolishes the silly idealist outlook of Star Trek universe.

                      Oh well....

                      Dan
                      Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                      "Aim small, miss small."

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Cheetah772 View Post
                        Agreed, you won't get any argument from me.

                        Even so, I've always had this fantastical notion that one day writers might sketch out a storyline about Earth-Romulus War that led to the forming of Federation.

                        It would involve a lot of action, gritty reality thing, gore, massive ship battles, and the final result ends in a historic victory for Earth-led alliance forces.

                        Look at Deep Space Nine, it's no wonder that Season 5 to 7 (three years) are considered the BEST in Star Trek universe. The final episode where 800 million Cardassians were massacred is downright chilly and excellent at the same time. It demolishes the silly idealist outlook of Star Trek universe.

                        Oh well....

                        Dan
                        Deep Space Nine was my favorite Star Trek as well. I thought the acting, script, the diplomacy, etc. was the best any science fiction show ever did. Even the theme song and opening credits were the best. IMHO.
                        History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
                        _________
                        BoRG
                        __________
                        "I am Arthur, King of the Britons!"

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Cheetah772 View Post
                          Even so, I've always had this fantastical notion that one day writers might sketch out a storyline about Earth-Romulus War that led to the forming of Federation.

                          It would involve a lot of action, gritty reality thing, gore, massive ship battles, and the final result ends in a historic victory for Earth-led alliance forces.
                          Sounds like a plan. When do you start?

                          Originally posted by Cheetah772 View Post
                          Look at Deep Space Nine, it's no wonder that Season 5 to 7 (three years) are considered the BEST in Star Trek universe. The final episode where 800 million Cardassians were massacred is downright chilly and excellent at the same time. It demolishes the silly idealist outlook of Star Trek universe.
                          Season 7? With no Jadzia Dax? You can't be serious.

                          But yes, at least seasons 5 and 6 hit the nail on the head when it come to classic Star Trek. There's a war going on that's pretty straightward with a cold enemy, the Klingons do their thing without some hu-man flying back messing with politics on the homeworld all the time, some creative writing, some non-cheesy philosophical items.

                          "In The Pale Moonlight" is a masterpiece.

                          The best TNG still wins on the creativity front.

                          All this makes it sad that they first tried the Voyager stunt (bring it entirely outside known space to avoid story) and then have Star Trek taken out and shot in the head by "fistfight and manual torture first" (you'd think they use mini phasers and interrogation chemicals by then, but the network had other plans) Star Trek: Enterprise. They actually had it figured out.

                          Oh well, let's see whether they learned their lesson.

                          At least Berman is out. It was impossible to actually assess the damage he has done since there's a lack of non-Berman comparison material, maybe we'll know now.

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                          • #88
                            So here is what they should do for a new show.

                            Hire J. Michael Straczynski.

                            (reminder, he did the story for "Changeling" and the whole thing was his idea, he's not dead)

                            Implement a Star Trek series with a series-wide story arc like Babylon 5 had. But don't let Rick Berman **** it up like he did with the "temporal cold" war (puke), he just doesn't have it. And don't cancel a whole season in a series that has a 5-season long story, duh.

                            That story arc should involve the slow discovery of an enemy that can threaten the whole existence of our civilization (but not a single man like in the movie, please, make it some empire with lots of actual power like .... warships. Duh).

                            You could do this with the Romulans, you could expand on how Earth first deals with the Romulans, building up the story arc with more and more discovery over the whole series.

                            The Romulans have the disadvantage that the audience knows the outcome, so maybe the current movie reset can be used to have a new enemy appear. Presumably you could use some race that has been kept at bay or turned to civilization by the Vulcans in Universe Version 1 but is now out of control in Universe V2.0 that only has Vulcan "advisers".

                            To keep things on track put yourself in the position of e.g. native Americans after the Europeans arrived. Three ships look pretty harmless, in particular when one of them tanks and gets burned. But you have no way to estimate the total mass that these guys can put behind their efforts. And you already know their weaponry really hurts.

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                            • #89
                              Redwolf,

                              I agree with you.

                              Hire Rob Moore AND Michael Straczynski. I think Straczynski could do the storyline, while Moore directs the show. However, they would make an excellent team.

                              You can do a series-wide story arc, or go back to TNG formula, by exploring Gamma Quadrant. I think it opens the door to new creativity and story lines.

                              Set it at least 10 or 20 years later, so the audience wouldn't feel being forced to learn all over again the background story on DS9 or Bajor. It would give writers a chance to try new things while sticking with familiarity of Star Trek universe.

                              I think that's why writers hit it big with the new Star Trek movie. It is a clean reboot, but at the same time, there is a feeling of familiarity with Star Trek universe. It opens the door to new story lines, but doesn't try to destroy the primary timeline in which Star Trek universe takes place. It's something that's worth a try in going down the road with exploratory expeditions to Gamma Quadrant.

                              In fact, when DS9 was relaunched by novels, one of first things authors tried was sending DS9 crew on exploratory expeditions through Gamma Quadrant. Such novels were well received by fans. Maybe that's something that could work very well on movie or TV.

                              It's just an idea, but obviously, writers are smarter than either of you or me....

                              Dan
                              Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                              "Aim small, miss small."

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                All these ideas have some merit, but remember the one unclimbable slick column of direction-light: Roddenberry's idea.

                                Roddenberry wanted a certain look & feel to the show and it was his ship to pilot as it was till he died. (Even forcing his wife on every episode, series or plot via in person or the computer's voice)

                                No one wants to crack and toss out the Roddenberry mold. It's as if a level ten force field is in place when it comes to what the show can and cannot do.

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