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  • Luftwaffe Light?

    I may be a bit bias here, but has anyone else noticed that The History Channel's "Dogfights" series is not featuring any German pilots?
    Or for that matter Russian or English.
    I think the series is great with computer simulations highlighting tactics and maneuvers, as well as very informative comparison graphics of adversarial machines.
    I understand the adage, the victor writes the history, but how can you produce a historical series on fighter pilots without mentioning histories top aces?
    In the first world war Rittmeister Manfred Von Richthofen scored 80 kills. A record for that conflict.
    Oberleutnant Erich Hartmann downed 352 enemy planes in WWII. A score still unmatched to this day.
    Oberst Hans Rudel knocked out 518 Soviet tanks on the Eastern Front. A number equal to five Russian tank corps.
    I would love for these pilots to be featured in the same way in the series just to find out how they managed to rack up such impressive scores.
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  • #2
    Originally posted by cyberia View Post
    I may be a bit bias here, but has anyone else noticed that The History Channel's "Dogfights" series is not featuring any German pilots?
    Or for that matter Russian or English.
    I think the series is great with computer simulations highlighting tactics and maneuvers, as well as very informative comparison graphics of adversarial machines.
    I understand the adage, the victor writes the history, but how can you produce a historical series on fighter pilots without mentioning histories top aces?
    In the first world war Rittmeister Manfred Von Richthofen scored 80 kills. A record for that conflict.
    Oberleutnant Erich Hartmann downed 352 enemy planes in WWII. A score still unmatched to this day.
    Oberst Hans Rudel knocked out 518 Soviet tanks on the Eastern Front. A number equal to five Russian tank corps.
    I would love for these pilots to be featured in the same way in the series just to find out how they managed to rack up such impressive scores.
    hehe I asked the same question and got run out of town like a common pygmy! Americans shooting down Japanese, Germans, N.Koreans, N.Vietnamese seems to be the diet at this time. I was naive because I heard of this show I looked beyond the nationality block and was hoping to see interesting, suspenseful dogfights regardless of who gets shot down.

    I guess the main audience and the producers of the show are mostly Americans (Isreal was in one show...i think the Brits in one other?) and that is why the show is American-centric? They probably feel that we do not care to see Americans or American allies (as of this date) losing a dogfight.

    My money is that you will soon see a WW2 episode of Germans shooting down Russians/Soviets (Germany is currently an american ally with Russia less so).

    Anyway, i believe that if you go to the show's website there is a link to tell the producers of dogfights you would like to see covered in the series.
    All your ACG posts are belong to us!

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Patroclus View Post
      Anyway, i believe that if you go to the show's website there is a link to tell the producers of dogfights you would like to see covered in the series.
      Sorry, I was not aware the topic had already been covered, but thanks for the tip on the website.
      I don't mean to detract from the obvious bravery and talent of Allied pilots, but a historical series on dogfights that leaves out Ace of Aces Hartmann is hardly a serious study of maneuvers and tactics.
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      • #4
        Agreed on that Cyberia. One should also not forget Marseille and Nowotny either.
        "The Eastern front is like a house of cards. If the front is broken through at one point all the rest will collapse."- General Heinz Guderian


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        • #5
          Exactly, those two definitely deserve inclusion. There was also a Russian pilot, flew a Bi-plane, I may be off here but I think the pilot was a woman who had a very high score.
          Anyone know who I'm talking about?
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          • #6
            Originally posted by cyberia View Post
            Sorry, I was not aware the topic had already been covered, but thanks for the tip on the website.
            I don't mean to detract from the obvious bravery and talent of Allied pilots, but a historical series on dogfights that leaves out Ace of Aces Hartmann is hardly a serious study of maneuvers and tactics.
            Entschuldigung! I neglected to mention it was not in the ACG forum.

            And I agree 100% with your comments of seeing other nationalities involved in "Dogfights" as other than victims of American (or our ally) pilots.
            All your ACG posts are belong to us!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Patrocles View Post
              Entschuldigung!
              No problem.
              Here's to similer lines thought: Prosit!
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              • #8
                The same reason they will never make a motion picture about
                the life of Eric Hartmann. This guy has enough history for two movies.

                The same with Rudel, the highest decorated individual in WW2, too much
                of a Nazi, so that makes him politcal incorect to do a movie about him.

                Too bad because there are amazing stories there that have never been told.
                Life is what happens to you when your busy making other plans! Lennon - www.lufttiger.com

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                • #9
                  I know where you are coming from, Lufttiger, and it if that's the case it is too bad. But they have made a number of movies about Hitler, and by most accounts he too was a Nazi.
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                  • #10
                    I agree with you, Cyberia - in order for the show to have any real claim toing "historic", it needs to cover all history of air combat, including those who are not currently politically correct.

                    After all, the History Channel regularly runs programs about the Germans trashing the Americans during the Battle of the Bulge. What's different about the Luftwaffe?
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                    • #11
                      I've always felt that way MountainMan. I don't see why the often peripheral political affiliations of a soldier should be taken into account against his or her laurels.
                      A good soldier, a good patriot, fights for their country without question, and history should judge them in that respect. Not dangling the political or humanitarian misdeeds and crimes of their leaders over their heads or graves for perpetuity.

                      A hero is a hero, and nothing should diminish that.
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                      • #12
                        Very good question....where are all the other pilots?? British, French, German Russian, Japanese, Canadian, South African, Polish.....They all had aces up there much higher than American aces in WW2 Hell... Erich Hartmann had 352 confirmed kills in the war...the "Greatest Ace" that ever lived....and Rudel in his Stuka. THey should broaden it out some...Dogfights were not just an "American thing"!

                        I noticed this when I was watching it a few weeks ago.....And that brings me to "Shootout" It does the same thing. We need to see it from all points of veiw cuz that's how our Armies learn from others. I'd love to see some "East Front" Action.....or Arab/Israili wars stuff......or even some Pacific theater stuff from the Japanese side....
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                        • #13
                          I agree with Cyberia, there should be more dogfight episodes with other countries. Maybe we'll see something different in the next set of episodes. I personally would like to see a gulf war episode.
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                          • #14
                            A Gulf War episode would be cool too.
                            I guess the best bet would be to follow Patrocles' suggestion in post #2 and contact the shows website. Let them know how we feel.
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                            • #15
                              I watched an epiisode of Dogfights with a non history buff buddy of mine and i said the same thing you guys are saying, i wished they would include German and other countries pilots. I mentioned Eric Hartmann's 352 confirmed kills and he was completely floored. He had no idea there was someone with that many kills. Then i told him there were several guys who had over 200 kills and i think that if he didnt know me as well as he does he wouldnt of belived me. Just goes to show you why we need shows like Dogfights to cover more than one side.

                              Someone mentioned Shootout. I did see an episode where they covered Stalingrad but it looked like it was made by the local communist party propaganda machine.
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