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  • A movie worth seeing!

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...892675,00.html
    Are we there yet?

  • #2
    ANGERED by negative portrayals of the conflict in Iraq, Bruce Willis, the Hollywood star, is to make a pro-war film in which American soldiers will be depicted as brave fighters for freedom and democracy.
    Another propaganda film from Hollywood...big surprise.
    Wisdom is personal

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Karri
      Another propaganda film from Hollywood...big surprise.
      So you're saying that they shouldn't be depicted as brave soldiers fighting for freedom and democracy?
      Islam... it's a blast - literally.

      Comment


      • #4
        At $20 million or so per film, at least his motivation will be clear.
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Karri
          Another propaganda film from Hollywood...big surprise.
          I can hardly remember the last time a Hollywood film portrayed the US soldier in a positive light, outside of WWII that is. Most of them are either political hit pieces or completely larger than life tripe. Three Kings, Courage Under Fire, GI Jane, Top Gun, Full Metal Jacket, Apocalypse Now, The Deer Hunter, Born on the Fourth of July, etc, etc, were all Hollywood paranoia. Some of them contained a few interesting moments, but not one of them portrayed the American soldier in a positive way, and none of them got the important details right.

          Having spent most of my adult life in uniform, it's very difficult for me to watch "war movies" at all. I don't expect them to get all the technical details correct, however, the majority don’t even make an attempt to do so. Soldiers and marines are consistently portrayed as idiots, sadists, the dregs of society who couldn't land a job anywhere else, burnt outs on the ragged edge from Vietnam, or just plain criminals.

          Courage Under Fire was so unbelievably inaccurate and stilted toward the Army that I almost witnessed a riot at the theater. I saw this film on base when it first came out and was overseas. It was a full audience, but halfway through the movie the audience was so completely outraged that they started throwing popcorn and food and I thought they were going to close down the theatre. Every soldier in this movie was a complete piece of garbage. The star of the movie was a colonel who was a drunk and responsible for killing his own men. The NCO was a murderer and a liar. The medic was a thief and a drug dealer. The door gunner was a coward and an idiot to boot. The general was a fallen star with political skeletons in his closet. The one, and ONLY, soldier in the movie that was even halfway decent was, of course, the female pilot. The action scenes in this movie were so unbelievable I actually laughed out loud with disgust (note: medivac helicopters do no carry fuel tanks for the bombing of T-62 main battle tanks, nor do they have door gunners with M-60s dangling on bungee cords!).

          Full Metal Jacket was fun to watch, but it’s pure Hollywood fantasy at best. It really isn't a war movie at all; it's a political statement in drag.

          Platoon had all of the NCOs killing one another, drunk, drugged up, or committing war crimes left and right, while every enlisted solider in the movie is an illiterate from small town America. The officers at all levels were depicted as either completely incompetent or altogether indifferent.

          Don't even get me started on Three Kings.

          I don't know anything about this new movie that is being planned with Bruce Willis. I would welcome a movie that shows what the Iraqi War was really like. I was a Blackhawk crewchief for 16+ years, and I can say that Black Hawk Down was reasonably accurate. The movie successfully captures the confusion and friction of military action, while mostly shying away from spending a bunch of time fleshing out the personalities of the soldiers themselves. For the most part, they make a lot of mistakes, misjudgments, and errors that depict them as all too human. Nor were these soldiers superheroes with an unlimited supply of courage or ammunition. At times, they ran out of both. Although in many ways BHD is indeed an "anti-war" movie, it is fairly accurate in most respects. Of course, it depicts one of the only US "losses" in modern history. I guess you can't have a movie that both portrays US servicemen in a positive fashion AND have them win. That would be asking way too much from Hollywood.
          Editor-in-Chief
          GameSquad.com

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Don Maddox
            I don't know anything about this new movie that is being planned with Bruce Willis. I would welcome a movie that shows what the Iraqi War was really like. I was a Blackhawk crewchief for 16+ years, and I can say that Black Hawk Down was reasonably accurate. The movie successfully captures the confusion and friction of military action, while mostly shying away from spending a bunch of time fleshing out the personalities of the soldiers themselves. For the most part, they make a lot of mistakes, misjudgments, and errors that depict them as all too human. Nor were these soldiers superheroes with an unlimited supply of courage or ammunition. At times, they ran out of both. Although in many ways BHD is indeed an "anti-war" movie, it is fairly accurate in most respects. Of course, it depicts one of the only US "losses" in modern history. I guess you can't have a movie that both portrays US servicemen in a positive fashion AND have them win. That would be asking way too much from Hollywood.
            It's been a while since I've seen the whole thing, but I thought the movie made the case that the US forces involved pulled out a stunning victory in military terms, but that the political side considered it a defeat.
            To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which is one of the foundations of American life.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Overseer
              It's been a while since I've seen the whole thing, but I thought the movie made the case that the US forces involved pulled out a stunning victory in military terms, but that the political side considered it a defeat.
              I don't think the movie was attempting to make that point at all! In the movie the unit completely fails to accomplish many of its assigned tasks, while getting a bloody nose in the process. Virtually every soldier in the movie is either killed or wounded. Two UH-60s are destroyed, one officer is captured, and even the vaunted Delta teams are unable to restore the situation.

              Convoys consistently take wrong turns, get lost, and are ambushed despite having the advantage of air coordination. The actions of the soldiers are depicted as a combination of extremely brave and competent, while at times also being poorly coordinated and hastily executed. The result is a mess (which is a reasonably fair and accurate representation).

              Although the US forces inflict a lot more casualties than they take in the movie, this is understandable given that they have helicopters and heavy weaponry vs. the disorganized mobs on the street.

              BHD clearly depicts this particular action as a military disaster for the US. But it takes great pains to show why things went wrong to the extent that they did. There is no attempt to overtly slam the leadership or place the blame at the foot of incompetent soldiers.

              The director was forced to combine several real life people into a single movie character for the sake of keeping the film watchable. There are also some events that were glossed over or skipped (it's a movie, after all, not a documentary). BHD does capture the essence of what happened and how it happened.
              Editor-in-Chief
              GameSquad.com

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              • #8
                three kings is one of my favourite war movies!
                "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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                • #9
                  The only part of BHD (the movie) which makes me cringe is the part where Gen Garrison is talking about how "Washington, in all its wisdom" prevented them from using the C-130 Spectres and the heavy armor. Actually, the book makes it clear that Washington had nothing to do with it...and in fact the last thing you want in a cramped city is a Spectre throwing lead all over the place. Also, heavy armor has no place in a city where the streets are barely wide enough for it. The book explains how narrow the streets really were (not like the movie).

                  Overall I think it did an excellent job as portraying the soldiers in a positive light, especially showing them as real people in the barracks - and not as automatons brainwashed by drugs or complaining about how much they hate being in the Army. In fact, I was more struck by how much they WANTED to be in the Army (although not necessarily in Somalia). This is very different than what most recent movies will tell you.

                  Can Hollywood make a movie that is pro-soldier, without being pro-war, especially in a conflict which the US troops routinely win the battles? Can it be done without coming across as propaganda? Should we (as US citizens) be ashamed of a movie that is pro-soldier? It will of course depend on how the content is handled, but I suspect this new movie will also be a focal point of those who don't support this war vs. those who do. Should be interesting, if nothing else.
                  Our forefathers died to give us freedom, not free stuff.

                  I write books about zombies as E.E. Isherwood. Check me out at ZombieBooks.net.

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                  • #10
                    To quote part of the article in post one here on this thread.

                    "Unlike many Hollywood stars Willis supports the war and recently offered a $1m (about £583,000) bounty for the capture of any of Al-Qaeda’s most wanted leaders such as Osama Bin Laden, Ayman Al-Zawahiri or Abu Musab al- Zarqawi, its commander in Iraq. Willis visited the war zone with his rock and blues band, the Accelerators, in 2003."

                    I will say this much, Bruce puts his money where mouth is. I will say this much, he is willing to back his beliefs.

                    I don't think the film will be a good one or a bad one based off of his politics. I am sure he won't be able to seriously make the film, unless he goes about making it seriously at the entertainment level.

                    I will likely not mind watching it. But I DO like watching him on film, so I am biased right from the start

                    It's only when films completely mangle established know history that I get annoyed regardless of the actor.
                    I like Nic Cage for instance, but his Windtalkers was garbage.

                    I remember watching a film with AH-64 helicopters (can't recall the film name) but it was heavily bank rolled by the government, and was really just a vehicle to promote the war on drugs in South America. The movie was barely acceptable, but it sure reaked of official government meddling.

                    As long as Bruce remembers to make it a credible movie while honouring the guys in the field it will be likely an acceptable undertaking from anyone's viewpoint.
                    Life is change. Built models for decades.
                    Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
                    I didn't for a long time either.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Don Maddox
                      I can hardly remember the last time a Hollywood film portrayed the US soldier in a positive light, outside of WWII that is. Most of them are either political hit pieces or completely larger than life tripe. Three Kings, Courage Under Fire, GI Jane, Top Gun, Full Metal Jacket, Apocalypse Now, The Deer Hunter, Born on the Fourth of July, etc, etc, were all Hollywood paranoia. Some of them contained a few interesting moments, but not one of them portrayed the American soldier in a positive way, and none of them got the important details right.
                      As I said, Hollywood propaganda. In Vietnam US were the 'bad guys', or so the people seem to think. Or so the Hollywood seems to think that people think. Anyways, that's why they portray the US as bad guys. Same with WW2 films, there the Nazi's were the bad guys...so in every film the nazi's die in millions.

                      Having spent most of my adult life in uniform, it's very difficult for me to watch "war movies" at all. I don't expect them to get all the technical details correct, however, the majority don’t even make an attempt to do so. Soldiers and marines are consistently portrayed as idiots, sadists, the dregs of society who couldn't land a job anywhere else, burnt outs on the ragged edge from Vietnam, or just plain criminals.
                      Of course not, they make movies, not documentaries. Or rather, they make money with movies.


                      I don't know anything about this new movie that is being planned with Bruce Willis. I would welcome a movie that shows what the Iraqi War was really like.
                      The problem is, will it? Bruce has a clear agenda; he will show what kind of jolly good guys the US soldiers are...and that the war is justified(pro-war???)?

                      I guess you can't have a movie that both portrays US servicemen in a positive fashion AND have them win. That would be asking way too much from Hollywood.
                      Band of Brothers? But that's WW2...
                      Wisdom is personal

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Aries
                        To quote part of the article in post one here on this thread.



                        I remember watching a film with AH-64 helicopters (can't recall the film name) but it was heavily bank rolled by the government, and was really just a vehicle to promote the war on drugs in South America. The movie was barely acceptable, but it sure reaked of official government meddling.

                        t.

                        Try Firebirds what a complete piece of trash!
                        Are we there yet?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dano
                          Try Firebirds what a complete piece of trash!
                          An inbred clone of Top Gun.
                          A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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                          • #14
                            Gotta be careful with the quote function Dano that was not part of the article heeh.

                            Anyway, bingo, that was the film.
                            Life is change. Built models for decades.
                            Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
                            I didn't for a long time either.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Karri
                              Another propaganda film from Hollywood...big surprise.
                              Another anti-American comment from the Karri-Go-Round...big surprise.

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