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  • #46
    As they say ...

    Originally posted by OpanaPointer View Post
    You know, calling the Axis "the enemy" didn't used to inflame sensitive souls. Now people go looking for things to be insulted about.
    ... you can insult people some of time, or you can insult people all of the time ... or you can just lose your train of thought, pisss yourself and wander off.
    "I am Groot"
    - Groot

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Marmat View Post
      ... you can insult people some of time, or you can insult people all of the time ... or you can just lose your train of thought, pisss yourself and wander off.
      But it's okay to insult people here, as you amply demonstrate.
      Hyperwar: World War II on the World Wide Web
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      The best place in the world to "work".

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      • #48
        Huh? ...

        Originally posted by OpanaPointer View Post
        But it's okay to insult people here, as you amply demonstrate.
        Depends, as in I've got'em on now, so I can focus: I have no idea why you posted what I responded to, still don't. So much for self-depreciating humour without a sarcasm alert. I like you, I would intentionally insult you, ... well, maybe just a tiny bit, and in the nicest way. Guess you just couldn't feel the luv; give us a kiss?

        Edit: OR, are you just one of those "people [who] go looking for things to be insulted about."
        Last edited by Marmat; 27 Jul 17, 18:09.
        "I am Groot"
        - Groot

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        • #49
          No kiss, I'm straight. The rest is reaction to a trend I see here. Sorry if you got caught in the fallout pattern.
          Hyperwar: World War II on the World Wide Web
          Hyperwar, Whats New
          World War II Resources
          The best place in the world to "work".

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Imperial View Post
            Not that I know of.

            Anyway, returning to Dunkirk, I would have preferred better action, even if it involved the use of CGI. The dogfights were pretty basic. I mean I've seen more riveting stuff on History Channel's Dogfights.
            Now that is where I actually praise the movie.

            Flyboys and Red Tails juiced up the action with heavy cgi and planes that flew like X Wings. The dogfighting portrayed in Dunkirk isn't as riveting but comes closer to realism of how 1930's era aircraft fought. If you look at the old gun camera footage it isn't as wild as movies often like to show.

            That's my chief praise for the film - although that glide scene was a bit of a stretch.
            A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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            • #51
              As for the aerial scenes in the film, keep in mind we're talking about flying antiques that would probably tear themselves apart in the air if they pulled the kind of Gs they were originally designed for many, many years ago.
              You'll live, only the best get killed.

              -General Charles de Gaulle

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              • #52
                I am not a big CGI fan, but this movie proves that "practical effects" have their weaknesses too. Nolan was able to use three Spitfires and one faux Me-109. Three is perfect for Spitfire tactics, but one Jerry is problematic. First, why are the Brits flying so low? Probably for cinematic reasons. Logically, if they were sent to defend the skies over the beach, they would come in high. Second, would a lone Me-109 bounce three Spits? Possibly, if it were flown by an Adolf Galland. However, I would think he would use the energy from his dive to make one pass and then high-tail it. Tangling with the three would be highly unlikely. With CGI you could have had a more logical dogfight. (Not that I am arguing for that. It was fun watching the antiques go at it.) Speaking of CGI, if Nolan had opted to use it, we could have seen how a gliding Spitfire was able to shoot down a diving Stuka!

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                • #53
                  I believe most of the CGI-haters hate CGI because they're supposed to hate CGI.
                  Hyperwar: World War II on the World Wide Web
                  Hyperwar, Whats New
                  World War II Resources
                  The best place in the world to "work".

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                  • #54
                    As far as the treatment of the French, I think France might not have a big problem with the movie because it does fit the French narrative at the time. The French felt the Brits let them down. The movie implies that the French are defending the perimeter while the British evacuate. (In the opening scene, Tommy passes through a French street blockade. By the way, if this is happening on the first day of Tommy's weeklong arc, there is no way the Germans would be that close to the beach.) In reality, while they did more than their share at the end, British soldiers were also sacrificed. Keep in mind, some of the French units that manned the perimeter until the end were not interested in being evacuated. Second, the movie falsely claims that the British did not evacuate the French until the Brits had been taken care of. It makes a big deal of Bolton sticking around to start that evacuation. In fact, Churchill insisted on evacuating French soldiers jointly with the Tommies. One reason why the mole was more chaotic than depicted was the French could be difficult. They insisted on being evacuated in their units which was clearly impractical. I can see French watching the movie and saying "Grandpapa was right, those limeys really were jerks".

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                    • #55
                      The idea that the British failed to evacuate the French in any significant numbers appears to originate from two sources, one the Ministry of War in Paris in June 1940. Alexander Werth who was present (See the Last Days of Paris - essentially his diary) puts this down to a general casting around for someone to blame for the defeat of France; two German propaganda aimed at the French which pressed the theme that Britain would "Fight to the Last Frenchman" a phrase originating in WW1 propaganda leaflets and in WW2 repeated in German propaganda broadcasts and taken up and repeated verbatim by Petain to the US ambassador in June 1940.

                      Ironically the idea seems to have been pinched from Allied propaganda from Italy that Germany would fight to the last Austrian.
                      Last edited by MarkV; 28 Jul 17, 09:50.
                      Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                      Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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                      • #56
                        You should watch "week end at Zuydcoote" , a french film from 1964.
                        An English officer is filmed while saying "English on the left , french on the right" , when waiting for the embarkment.Both countries are described as leaving Dunkirk together at the same moment.
                        That rug really tied the room together

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                        • #57
                          What it didn't show was the right hand queue went round in a bid circle and never got near a ship.

                          The long toll of the brave
                          Is not lost in darkness
                          Over the fruitful earth
                          And athwart the seas
                          Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                          Unquenchable forever.

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                          • #58
                            You're so funny.
                            Really.Benny Hill's not dead.
                            Last edited by sebfrench76; 29 Jul 17, 20:28.
                            That rug really tied the room together

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                            • #59
                              Just got back from seeing it. I was a quarter into it before I let myself go with its flow and be entertained sans my inner history critic. Glad I saw it.
                              I often think how much easier the world would have been to manage if Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini had been at Oxford. Lord Halifax

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by warmoviebuff View Post
                                As far as the treatment of the French, I think France might not have a big problem with the movie because it does fit the French narrative at the time. .

                                I don't think that this was a historical movie. While it did dip into some historical aspects, I think at heart it was an artsy movie about individuals under stress and trauma.

                                The core of the film was his directing style, camera shooting, and acting, not the minimal story. I think he innovated here and in a way was trying to show off what he could do. There were lots of unusual nuances in the acting and presentation of fear.

                                For instance, the Spitfire pilot did a lot of acting with his eyes.
                                Last edited by Cult Icon; 29 Jul 17, 23:16.
                                Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                                Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                                Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                                Battle of Kalinin October 1941

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