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Japanese Top Gun with Zeros

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  • #16
    I read sakai's book...........he outflew 15 wildcats over iwo jima. He considered it his most skilfull mission..

    https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylc...p=mss&ei=UTF-8

    scroll down to the first video...............

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    • #17
      Sakai was extremely upset with the way the Japanese High Command ran the war, I don't recall him having anything good to say about them. From basic doctrine to overall strategy, he really let them have it.

      If his book is as widely read in Japan as it was here, I expect that Japan's future conduct in any war will be radically different.



      Originally posted by Marmat View Post

      Thanks, I just watched it from start to finish. I could pick away at the technical faults, but for a change I'd like to talk about the good stuff.
      I've had enough of Cinema Sins for a while.

      It was well thought-out, being a story about survivor guilt and what life was like in the IJN. The routine brutality was a reminder that this battleship was a weapon meant to increase the power of a cruel regime. Yamato's combat career was very limited, so they almost went like the latest Pearl Harbor movie... but not so badly.
      Some of the details were very good, such as the Bus running on wood gas... but I think that the stench of a real one would have made the actor's eyes water.
      And of course, the size and power of that ship was communicated very well.


      However.... I had to turn the volume down to zero, that dub really grated on my nerves!
      "Why is the Rum gone?"

      -Captain Jack

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      • #18
        Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
        Okay, the CGI looked great, and at least Japan is finally making movies that acknowledge that WW2 actually happened, that's a step forward.
        Since Japan suffered a total defeat in World War 2 and Emperor Hirohito had to become Douglas MacArthur's boyfriend then I don't blame them for pretending WWII never happened, LOL.

        However, there have been some Japanese WWII films. I saw another Japanese WWII movie from 1974. It shows a fighter squadron flying Zeroes too. The footage was done using terrible airplane models.


        "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
        --Frederick II, King of Prussia

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        • #19
          Even Spitfire, which were much better dogfighters than Mustangs, didn't tangle with Zeros. The Raff learned early doors to bounce 'em then get back upstairs quicksharp.

          The long toll of the brave
          Is not lost in darkness
          Over the fruitful earth
          And athwart the seas
          Hath passed the light of noble deeds
          Unquenchable forever.

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          • #20
            I'll buy that ...

            Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
            Sakai was extremely upset with the way the Japanese High Command ran the war, I don't recall him having anything good to say about them. From basic doctrine to overall strategy, he really let them have it.

            If his book is as widely read in Japan as it was here, I expect that Japan's future conduct in any war will be radically different.





            Thanks, I just watched it from start to finish. I could pick away at the technical faults, but for a change I'd like to talk about the good stuff.
            I've had enough of Cinema Sins for a while.

            It was well thought-out, being a story about survivor guilt and what life was like in the IJN. The routine brutality was a reminder that this battleship was a weapon meant to increase the power of a cruel regime. Yamato's combat career was very limited, so they almost went like the latest Pearl Harbor movie... but not so badly.
            Some of the details were very good, such as the Bus running on wood gas... but I think that the stench of a real one would have made the actor's eyes water.
            And of course, the size and power of that ship was communicated very well.


            However.... I had to turn the volume down to zero, that dub really grated on my nerves!
            ... assessment. I confess I haven't seen many, if any, what I would call modern era Japanese war films, so what really surprised me was the exaggeration of expression (on Kamio senior's face for example), and the intensity shown by the gun crew in combat. I thought the screaming fanaticism etc. was Hollywood propagandist invention, I was very surprised to see the same sort of portrayal in a Japanese war film.
            Last edited by Marmat; 25 Jul 16, 13:42.
            "I am Groot"
            - Groot

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Marmat View Post
              ... and the intensity shown by the gun crew in combat. I thought the screaming fanaticism etc. was Hollywood propagandist invention, I was very surprised to see the same sort of portrayal in a Japanese war film.
              Well, from what I saw, the Japanese are very reserved, most of the time. When they put their "war-face" on there is no holding back ... and there isn't much in-between.
              Not much that an outsider gets to see, anyhow.
              "Why is the Rum gone?"

              -Captain Jack

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              • #22
                Originally posted by leandros View Post
                Sure, and left the field to the Zero........



                Says who...?

                Fred
                The Hellcat had superior armor and speed. The Zero's critical weakness was that it was fragile, slower, and lacked self sealing fuel tanks (this was a big issue). You had to beat a Hellcat into submission whereas Zeroes were rather frail.

                And gunning the motor and pulling away didn't always constitute "leaving the field". You might pull away, gain some altitude, then turn around for another go. It was just a matter of putting some distance between you and the other plane before making your next move.
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Von Richter View Post
                  Even Spitfire, which were much better dogfighters than Mustangs, didn't tangle with Zeros. The Raff learned early doors to bounce 'em then get back upstairs quicksharp.

                  The US Navy took on Zero's all the time and won. The Zero had great manueverability and range, and in the hands of an excellent pilot, it was deadly, but it still had its Achilles heel.

                  Its lack of armor and lack of self sealing fuel tank meant it couldn't take any punishment, and in the hands of less skilled pilots, it was mostly a death trap against the new American planes. Americans trained their pilots to take advantage of the American planes strength against the Zero weakness. The more robust consrruction of American planes meant they could go faster in a dive, so they had the edge in speed. The better armor of the American planes meant young inexperienced pilots could survive their mistakes, while young Japanese pilots in Zeros didn't have the same luxury, and the Japanese didn't bother to train new pilots to use their planes advantages the way Americans did theirs. By the end of the war, the Japanese didn't have enough pilots to man their aircraft carriers, and they resorted to kamikaze attaks because the Japanes pilots lacked the skill to compete. Ever hear of the Mariana Turkey shoot?

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                  • #24
                    The IJN filled the squadrons on these carriers with guys that had just completed a cut down course of training. The USN had its share of pilots that had just got out of Pilot Training. The big difference is USN Pilot Training kept adding flight hours to the course and the IJN had to cut back due to fuel shortages. The USN also rotated pilots back to the CONUS to train the Pilot Cadets. The only IJN Pilots that went back to Japan were the badly wounded ones that could be evacuated.

                    Pruitt
                    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by bart dale View Post
                      Ever hear of the Mariana Turkey shoot?
                      Was there much dogfighting in this turkey shoot you're on about...
                      dogfighting, that's kind of when you might come a cropper against a Zero, old chap.


                      The long toll of the brave
                      Is not lost in darkness
                      Over the fruitful earth
                      And athwart the seas
                      Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                      Unquenchable forever.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by bart dale View Post
                        Ever hear of the Mariana Turkey shoot?
                        Ever hear someone say "Turkey Shoot" is racist? I had this discussion recently. I pointed out that the term referred to a skill contest with firearms, with the prize a turkey. Of course the other party failed to see it that way.
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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post
                          I read sakai's book...........he outflew 15 wildcats over iwo jima. He considered it his most skilfull mission..

                          https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylc...p=mss&ei=UTF-8

                          scroll down to the first video...............
                          Minor technical issue here. The video you refer to mentions Hellcats, not Wildcats. Both types could have been encountered at Iwo Jima and other near by islands as the Wildcat was used on some CVLs and many CVEs, but usually it was the Hellcat squadrons out looking for Zeros to kill.
                          TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

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                          • #28
                            I once saw a flim where to Nip Zeros gave two proper Top Gun F16s a smartening up!
                            The long toll of the brave
                            Is not lost in darkness
                            Over the fruitful earth
                            And athwart the seas
                            Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                            Unquenchable forever.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Are you sure that wasn't two F-14's?

                              Pruitt
                              Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                              Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                              by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                              • #30
                                F-14 vs. Zero

                                Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                                Are you sure that wasn't two F-14's?

                                Pruitt
                                "I am Groot"
                                - Groot

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