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  • Downfall the movie

    Seems that there's a new film about Hitler's final days in the Bunker - and its been made in Germany.

    They seem to be a bit upset about it...

    'Human' Hitler disturbs Germans.

    Dr. S.
    56
    excellent
    82.14%
    46
    good
    14.29%
    8
    bad
    3.57%
    2
    hated it
    0.00%
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    Imagine a ball of iron, the size of the sun. And once a year a tiny sparrow brushes its surface with the tip of its wing. And when that ball of iron, the size of the sun, is worn away to nothing, your punishment will barely have begun.

    www.sinisterincorporated.co.uk

    www.tabletown.co.uk

  • #2
    "Der Untergang" film

    Has anyone seen this film? Bruno Ganz, the astounding Swiss (?) actor is portraying Hitler (the pics of him in makeup are chilling!).
    Please post your review!


    courtesy of the NTY:

    The All-Too-Human Hitler, on Your Big Screen
    By MARK LANDLER

    Published: September 15, 2004

    FRANKFURT, Sept. 14 - The release of a major movie about Hitler is, by definition, a remarkable event in Germany, especially if it portrays one of history's great monsters as a human being, given to moments of tenderness as well as the more familiar paroxysms of hatred.

    No longer a taboo subject, Hitler is now fair game for cinematic use as a bad guy, part of an international rogue's gallery, one commentator here said, that includes the likes of Nero and Jack the Ripper

    But the most remarkable thing about "Der Untergang" ("The Downfall"), a new film that explores Hitler's last 12 days in a bunker beneath the bombed-out chancellery in Berlin, is how unremarkable it is: a straightforward, rather conventional drama about the death throes of the Third Reich.

    This is no small thing in a country that has struggled, in art no less than in life, to make sense of where the Nazis came from.

    That Hitler has become acceptable grist for a piece of mainstream entertainment, rather than a sober documentary or a biting satire - as it has been the more customary treatment of the Führer in postwar Germany - attests to how far the Germans have come in laying to rest their ghosts.

    "For today's German public, the image of the old man with the brush mustache no longer poses a seductive danger," wrote Harald Martenstein in Der Tagesspiegel. "No greater danger than it does for the French or Irish, regardless of what the man on the screen says or does."

    It is not that simple, of course, in a country where even today political analysts are nervously watching state elections in Saxony and Brandenburg this Sunday because far-right parties may make substantial gains in the provincial parliaments.

    Germany still bans the Nazi Party, the wearing of swastikas, the publication of Hitler's "Mein Kampf" and other relics of National Socialism. In testing the boundaries of what is acceptable in dramatizing those days, German filmmakers must tread carefully.

    "Der Untergang," which opens here Thursday, has drawn a flood of coverage in the German press, including a cover story in Der Spiegel and chin-stroking essays in all the major newspapers. Much of the commentary has focused on the film's depiction of the 56-year-old Hitler, played with chilling verisimilitude by the respected Swiss-born actor, Bruno Ganz.

    After decades in which Hitler was portrayed, if at all, as a demonic madman, Mr. Ganz offers a flesh-and-blood portrait - a sort of backstairs at the bunker, in which the Führer chews out his hapless generals, dotes on his loyal-to-the-end secretaries and smiles at the doomed children of Josef Goebbels as they serenade him with folk songs.

    A few critics have expressed qualms about the wisdom of depicting Hitler in such sympathetic terms. Some note that the Hitler of the film is almost a heroic figure who refuses to flee or capitulate in the face of the advancing Soviet Army, even as he is betrayed by one former acolyte after another.

    "This whole debate over whether we are allowed to show Hitler as a human being is wrong," said Bernd Eichinger, the film's writer and producer. "Of course he was a human being. You have to make clear to people that he was a human being, and that's the dangerous thing."

    Mr. Eichinger said he had wanted to make a movie about Nazism for 20 years, but had been confounded by the enormity of the topic. He was inspired by the publication in 2002 of a book about the fall of the Third Reich by Joachim Fest, an author who has written extensively about the Nazis. Mr. Eichinger also drew from the memoirs of Traudl Junge, one of Hitler's secretaries who stuck with him until his suicide, taking down his last will and testament.

    Mr. Eichinger spent $16 million on the production - "the biggest budget since 'Das Boot,' " he said of the 1981 movie that painted a sympathetic portrait of a German submarine crew - and the money is apparent in the scenes of a devastated Berlin, which were filmed in St. Petersburg.

    "If you have a trauma like this, you need a generation to get a perspective on it," Mr. Eichinger said, explaining the film's long gestation. "My generation is now the same age as Hitler was in 1945."

    Yet there is a palpable frustration among critics here that, for all the time and money spent, and all the press generated, "Der Untergang" doesn't break much new ground in explaining the man. Jens Jessen, an editor at the weekly Die Zeit who wrote about the film, said he questioned how much Germans, particularly young ones, would learn by seeing it.

    "Showing him in intimate situations does not make us understand him better," Mr. Jessen said. "He remains monstrous and incomprehensible. The film is a type of experiment, but to what end?"

    For some Germans, it is clear, the subject of Nazism remains something to be mined with a goal of teaching a lesson or, at the very least, offering a fresh insight. Replaying the carnival-of-death atmosphere inside Hitler's bunker is the province of pop culture - fine for the makers of "Indiana Jones" films, but somehow inadequate for the German society of today.

    "For me as a historian, the Hitler subject is finished," said Lutz Hachmeister, a professor of media studies at the University of Dortmund and a documentary filmmaker. "Every aspect of Hitler has been shown."

    That does not mean, he said, that the Third Reich should not be explored in films and other media. Mr. Hachmeister is completing a documentary about Goebbels, the sinister propaganda man whom he describes as the first media-age politician. In 2002, German television broadcast a somewhat leaden comedy, "Goebbels and Geduldig," which portrayed Hitler's adviser and a Jewish concentration camp inmate who looked enough like him to be his twin.

    In a media age, Mr. Hachmeister said, Goebbels has a relevance to modern times that Hitler lacks. With both, however, it is historical distance that has finally made them pop-cultural fodder.

    "When people talk about propaganda," he said, "they always point to Goebbels. Of course, the German government we have today is the least conscious of propaganda of any government I could imagine."
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    • #3
      Started a similar thread here:

      http://war-forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16354

      (no proper reply to that one yet either )

      Dr. S.
      Imagine a ball of iron, the size of the sun. And once a year a tiny sparrow brushes its surface with the tip of its wing. And when that ball of iron, the size of the sun, is worn away to nothing, your punishment will barely have begun.

      www.sinisterincorporated.co.uk

      www.tabletown.co.uk

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Doctor Sinister
        Seems that there's a new film about Hitler's final days in the Bunker - and its been made in Germany.

        They seem to be a bit upset about it...

        'Human' Hitler disturbs Germans.

        Dr. S.
        Well, one of the major problems is the fear of the Neo Nazis misusing the film, at least that's how I interpreted it...
        Well, for the thinks I know without having seen the film yet it really seems to be quite realistic, and it seems that few people gather that Hitler must have been charismatic (and thus a little human) wich is quite good cought in this movie.
        "A platoon of Chinese tanks viciously attacked a Soviet harvester,
        which was peacefully working a field near the Soviet-Chinese border.
        The harvester returned fire and upon destroying the enemy
        returned to its home base."

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi,
          i have seen the film and the film was terrible realistic.
          In German TV,was an Report about the Premiere. All of those people how have seen the film, dont want to start with a party.
          After i have seen it, i was very shocked about the realistic of the movie.Here in Germany, the movie is free for age of 12. But why ? There is too much blood, kids will killed by Poisen (children of Goebels).In the Report off BBC stands that Mrs. Goebels killed her children with a drank. No it was for slepping in, after the children slepps she gave them "Cyankali" The same poison wich Hitler used.I cryed a little after the movie and i was really shocked.
          Look the Movie!
          My personall opion about the film, it is good that the Germans (my inc.) did not close their eyes above there one history
          Grettings
          Last edited by Sgt.Elter; 03 Oct 04, 12:40.
          "American Soldiers in Battle don´t fight for what some President say on T.V. , they don´t fight for mom, apple pie, the American flag........
          They fight for one another ."

          Lt.General Hal Moore
          HQ

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          • #6
            Something I was thinking about today: One guy I always thought they should have play Adolf Hitler in a (English speaking) movie would be Johnathan Hillerman. Most may remember him as "Higgins" off Magnum P.I. intentional or not,he had all the mannerisims and physiclly looked like Hitler.
            Delegate, MN GOP.

            PATRIA SI, COMUNISMO NO

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            • #7
              Originally posted by SGT Long
              Something I was thinking about today: One guy I always thought they should have play Adolf Hitler in a (English speaking) movie would be Johnathan Hillerman. Most may remember him as "Higgins" off Magnum P.I. intentional or not,he had all the mannerisims and physiclly looked like Hitler.
              That’s not nice, even if it is true.
              Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Doctor Sinister
                Seems that there's a new film about Hitler's final days in the Bunker - and its been made in Germany.

                They seem to be a bit upset about it...

                'Human' Hitler disturbs Germans.

                Dr. S.
                I can understand their reaction, on a superficial level, but on the whole, think they must step back for a moment and consider their position. Hitler WAS a person - a depraved, malevolent, insecure shadow of a man, but a man nonetheless. Now, if the film lionized him, made him out as a hero, or as beneficial to Germany - then I could see their objections.
                Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
                (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

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                • #9
                  Der Untergang movie

                  aka The Downfall: Hitler and the End of the Third Reich (and La Chute over here). Controversial german movie about the last days of Adolf Hitler in his Berlin Bunker and out tommorow in France, anybody seen it already?

                  IMdB: Der Untergang

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                  • #10
                    punt!
                    All your ACG posts are belong to us!

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                    • #11
                      You're several months late!

                      The good Doctor S. and myself started some threads a while ago but didn't receive many replies. you can check and contribute to these threads along with your own thread at (or the moderators can feel free to consolidate the threads):

                      link to Der Untergang film in WW2 forum

                      http://war-forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16364
                      All your ACG posts are belong to us!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Patrocles
                        You're several months late!

                        The good Doctor S. and myself started some threads a while ago but didn't receive many replies. you can check and contribute to these threads along with your own thread at (or the moderators can feel free to consolidate the threads):

                        link to Der Untergang film in WW2 forum

                        http://war-forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16364
                        damn, made a search for "Der Untergang", thats why i missed it

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Boonierat
                          damn, made a search for "Der Untergang", thats why i missed it
                          ha ha! Have you seen DU?

                          I really like the jDU lead actor Bruno Ganz. The pics showing him in makeup as Hitler are chilling.

                          If you are planning to watch it please post your review!
                          cheers!


                          damn! just noticed that there must be 379 additional smilies to choose from! cool!
                          :cool1: :wow1:

                          and you can edit the post to make it look like the smiley is a talkin'

                          Last edited by Patrocles; 04 Jan 05, 14:39.
                          All your ACG posts are belong to us!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Patrocles
                            If you are planning to watch it please post your review!
                            cheers!
                            I will, going to see it first thing tomorrow afternoon, I have the choice between DU and Alexander so...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Looks fantasic. I believe they are putting it in for an oscar. So it might hit DVD with subtitles.
                              Lesliesplace forum

                              Leslies place. Come on in and enjoy the company of a few good people.

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