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HOMER or HOLLYWOOD: Troy (2004)

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  • HOMER or HOLLYWOOD: Troy (2004)



    Guess which of these movie "facts" are accurate depictions of the legend of the Trojan War and "The Iliad". Answers soon.

    1. Agamemnon has united Greece into a loose alliance except for Thessaly.
    2. Achilles is a soldier in Agamemnonís army. They dislike each other. He fights a duel with Thessalyís champion.
    3. Achilles main motivation was to be remembered.
    4. Paris and Hector visit Menelaus to negotiate a treaty. Hector elopes with Helen.
    5. Agamemnon uses the elopement as an excuse to destroy Troy and control the Aegean Sea.
    6. Odysseus visits Achilles to recruit him
    7. Achillesí mom tells him he can live long and be forgotten or die a glorious death.
    8. Briseis is a priestess of Apollo and cousin to Paris and Hector.
    9. Hector wants Priam to send Helen back, but he refuses.
    10. Achilles lands first. His men form a testudo. The Myrmidons force the Trojans to retreat. Achilles sacks the temple of Apollo. He confronts Hector, but lets him go so he can fight another day.
    11. Achilles and Agamemnon argue over who gets credit for the victory.
    12. Agamemnon takes Briseis away to show who is boss.
    13. Paris ends a debate on what to do by proclaiming his desire to duel Menelaus.
    14. Achilles sulks over the loss of Briseis and forbid his men to fight.
    15. Menelaus and Paris duel between the armies. Menelaus easily wins, but Paris flees to Hector. Hector kills Menelaus. A big battle ensues with Trojan archers turning the tide.
    16. Hector kills Ajax.
    17. Agamemnon returns Briseis to Achilles. She and Achilles have sex. Achilles still refuses to return to the fighting.
    18. The Trojans attack at night using fire balls.
    19. Patroclus leads a counterattack disguised as Achilles. Hector kills him thinking he is Achilles.
    20. Achilles duels Hector after calling him out. Hector asks for a proper burial, but Achilles sneers at his request. Achilles stabs Hector in the shoulder and finishes him with his sword. He then drags the body back to the Greek camp.
    21. Priam visits Achilles to beg for his sonís body.
    22. Odysseus builds the Trojan Horse from ship timbers.
    23. Paris wants to burn the horse, but Priam decides to bring it into the city.
    24. Odysseus and Achilles are in the horse. They kill the sentries to let the Greek army in.
    25. Paris gives the Sword of Troy to the young Aeneas.
    26. Andromache and Helen escape.
    27. Agamemnon kills Priam by stabbing him from behind.
    28. Achilles works his way to Briseis. Briseis kills Agamemnon.
    29. Paris shoots Achilles in the ankle and then several other places.
    30. Paris and Briseis escape.
    31. The war lasts 17 days.

  • #2
    Originally posted by warmoviebuff View Post


    Guess which of these movie "facts" are accurate depictions of the legend of the Trojan War and "The Iliad". Answers soon.

    1. Agamemnon has united Greece into a loose alliance except for Thessaly.
    2. Achilles is a soldier in Agamemnonís army. They dislike each other. He fights a duel with Thessalyís champion.
    3. Achilles main motivation was to be remembered.
    4. Paris and Hector visit Menelaus to negotiate a treaty. Hector elopes with Helen.
    5. Agamemnon uses the elopement as an excuse to destroy Troy and control the Aegean Sea.
    6. Odysseus visits Achilles to recruit him
    7. Achillesí mom tells him he can live long and be forgotten or die a glorious death.
    8. Briseis is a priestess of Apollo and cousin to Paris and Hector.
    9. Hector wants Priam to send Helen back, but he refuses.
    10. Achilles lands first. His men form a testudo. The Myrmidons force the Trojans to retreat. Achilles sacks the temple of Apollo. He confronts Hector, but lets him go so he can fight another day.
    11. Achilles and Agamemnon argue over who gets credit for the victory.
    12. Agamemnon takes Briseis away to show who is boss.
    13. Paris ends a debate on what to do by proclaiming his desire to duel Menelaus.
    14. Achilles sulks over the loss of Briseis and forbid his men to fight.
    15. Menelaus and Paris duel between the armies. Menelaus easily wins, but Paris flees to Hector. Hector kills Menelaus. A big battle ensues with Trojan archers turning the tide.
    16. Hector kills Ajax.
    17. Agamemnon returns Briseis to Achilles. She and Achilles have sex. Achilles still refuses to return to the fighting.
    18. The Trojans attack at night using fire balls.
    19. Patroclus leads a counterattack disguised as Achilles. Hector kills him thinking he is Achilles.
    20. Achilles duels Hector after calling him out. Hector asks for a proper burial, but Achilles sneers at his request. Achilles stabs Hector in the shoulder and finishes him with his sword. He then drags the body back to the Greek camp.
    21. Priam visits Achilles to beg for his sonís body.
    22. Odysseus builds the Trojan Horse from ship timbers.
    23. Paris wants to burn the horse, but Priam decides to bring it into the city.
    24. Odysseus and Achilles are in the horse. They kill the sentries to let the Greek army in.
    25. Paris gives the Sword of Troy to the young Aeneas.
    26. Andromache and Helen escape.
    27. Agamemnon kills Priam by stabbing him from behind.
    28. Achilles works his way to Briseis. Briseis kills Agamemnon.
    29. Paris shoots Achilles in the ankle and then several other places.
    30. Paris and Briseis escape.
    31. The war lasts 17 days.
    My guess is numbers: 3, 7, 12, 14, 16, 19, 21, 22, and 29 sound accurate according to my poor memory of the Iliad. From what I hear Achilles preferred his "friend" Patroclus to the ladies. Not that he would turn a lady down fast.

    Pruitt
    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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    • #3
      1. It's Hollywoody; therefore

      2. The answers are irrelevant.
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        1. It's Hollywoody; therefore

        2. The answers are irrelevant.
        Disagree. It is relevant for people who watch the movie to know what is from the legend and "The Iliad" and what is not. Plus, it's interesting.

        Comment


        • #5
          I prefer George Shipway's account anyway - it's The King in Splendour which is vol II in a fictional autobiography of Agamemnon
          Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
          Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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          • #6
            TROY: Homer or Hollywood?

            1. Agamemnon has united Greece into a loose alliance except for Thessaly. HOMERWOOD Agamemnon was the dominant king among the Greek kings. A war with Thessaly is made up for the movie.
            2. Achilles is a soldier in Agamemnonís army. They dislike each other. He fights a duel with Thessalyís champion. HOLLYWOOD Achilles was not in Agamemnonís army. There is no evidence that they disliked each other before the Briseis conflict. The duel is pure Hollywood. Achilles would have used a spear, not a sword and would not have leaped in the air to stab an opponent in the neck.
            3. Achilles main motivation was to be remembered. HOMER Every great Greek warrior would have been motivated by the desire for arÍte. In this context, it refers to excellence in combat and fulfilling your potential. Achilles is properly depicted as fighting for glory.
            4. Paris and Hector visit Menelaus to negotiate a treaty. Paris elopes with Helen. HOMERWOOD Paris had been promised the most beautiful woman in exchange for choosing Aphrodite in a beauty contest. He was supposedly visiting Sparta as an ambassador, but was really there to claim his bribe. Menelaus was away from home when the two hooked up. Helen does elope with him, but she might have been under a love spell from Aphrodite.
            5. Agamemnon uses the elopement as an excuse to destroy Troy and control the Aegean Sea. HOLLYWOOD Agamemnon got involved because his brother Menelaus reminded him of his (and the other Greek kingsí) pledge to go to war over Helen. If there was an actual Trojan War, it would have been more of a raid rather than an attempt to conquer.
            6. Odysseus visits Achilles to recruit him. HOMERWOOD Odysseus was sent to get Achilles, who was trying to avoid the fighting (as per his parentsí wishes) by hiding out disguised as a female amongst a group of gals. Odysseus tricks him into revealing his maleness by including weapons among his gifts for the ladies.
            7. Achillesí mom tells him he can live long and be forgotten or die a glorious death. HOMERWOOD There was no goodbye scene between the two, but his mother would have been aware of the prediction that Achilles was destined to die a young, but glorious death. She had tried to keep him from the war, but he would have preferred the glorious death, plus there was the peer pressure.
            8. Briseis is a priestess of Apollo and cousin to Paris and Hector. HOLLYWOOD Briseis was not related to the royal family. She was a princess of Lyrnessus. Her husband and family had been killed in a raid by Achilles. The priestess of Apollo was Chryseis who had been taken by Agamemnon. She was a priestess of Apollo. Apollo inflicted a plague on the Greek camp which resulted in Agamemnon releasing her and claiming Briseis as his backup concubine.
            9. Hector wants Priam to send Helen back, but he refuses. HOMERWOOD There is no evidence that Hector urged this. It was suggested by an advisor named Centenor, but Paris refused to consider it and his father backed him up.
            10. Achilles lands first. His men form a testudo. The Myrmidons force the Trojans to retreat. HOLLYWOOD It was prophesied that the first man ashore was destined to die. That man was Protesilaus, who was promptly killed by Hector. The formation called a testudo was invented by the Romans many years later. The Trojans did retreat from the beachhead, but it was a combined effort by the Greeks and the Myrmidons are not singled out in the legend.
            11. Achilles sacks the temple of Apollo. He confronts Hector, but lets him go so he can fight another day. HOLLYWOOD This might be based on the sacking of Apolloís temple which resulted in the capturing of Chryseis, but otherwise it is bull crap.
            12. Achilles and Agamemnon argue over who gets credit for the victory. HOLLYWOOD The argument started with a rant by Achilles about not getting enough of a share of the spoils. Agamemnon tells him to go home, the Greeks donít need him. He accuses him of being arrogant and hot-headed which was pretty spot-on. This argument occurs much later in the war.
            13. Agamemnon takes Briseis away to show who is boss. HOMER Agamemnon needed a replacement for Chryseis, but part of his motivation was to show Achilles who had the power.
            14. Paris ends a debate on what to do by proclaiming his desire to duel Menelaus. HOMERWOOD Before one of the battles, Paris gets the bright idea to challenge the best Greek warrior to a duel. When Menelaus jumps at the chance, Paris has a change of heart. Hector accuses his brother of cowardice and shames him into fighting
            15. Achilles sulks over the loss of Briseis and forbid his men to fight. HOMER The movie leaves out the role of the gods so it does not show Achilles asking his mother to intervene to cause the Greeks to start losing. This guys a real patriot!
            16. Menelaus and Paris duel between the armies. Menelaus easily wins, but Paris flees to Hector. Hector kills Menelaus. A big battle ensues with Trojan archers turning the tide. HOLLYWOOD Paris throws a spear which bounces off Menelausí shield. Menelaus throws his spear which penetrates Parisí shield and almost kills him. Menelaus sword breaks, but he begins pulling Paris back to the Greek line by his helmet. Aphrodite cuts the helmet chin strap and deposits him in bed with Helen. Athena gets a Trojan to wound Menelaus with an arrow to reignite the war. Hector does not kill Menelaus! Individual archers make appearances in "The Iliad", but not massed archery.
            17. Hector kills Ajax. HOMERWOOD Hector proposed a truce and duel with a Greek champion. Ajax was chosen by lot. Both threw spears twice, then rocks, then closed with swords. Heralds from each side parted them and they exchanged gifts. Ajax actually died from suicide after Achilles died and Agamemnon awarded his armor to Odysseus. Ajax lost his mind and fell on his sword.
            18. Agamemnon returns Briseis to Achilles. She and Achilles have sex. Achilles still refuses to return to the fighting. HOMER Despite having had her family killed by him, Briseis developed feelings for Achilles. They probably were having sex, although he had several other concubines (and Patroclus). She certainly grieved over his death.
            19. The Trojans attack at night using fire balls. HOLLYWOOD Do I have to tell you that this is bull crap? When Hollywood canít justify explosions, fire is the next option. There is a germ of this in the Trojan daytime assault that burned at least one of the parked ships.
            20. Patroclus leads a counterattack disguised as Achilles. Hector kills him thinking he is Achilles. HOMERWOOD Achilles allowed Patroclus to borrow his armor and take the Myrmidons. He even tells Patroclus not to fear Hector. The Myrmidons led the counterattack that evicted the Trojans from the camp. Patroclus killed several Trojan heroes. Hector knows itís Patroclus. Apollo confuses Patroclus and he is stabbed from behind by a Trojan, Hector finishes him with a spear thrust from in front. When Achilles is informed, he regrets staying out of the fighting and vows revenge. His mother goes to Hephaestus to make new armor. Briseis is returned at this point.
            21. Achilles duels Hector after calling him out. Hector asks for a proper burial, but Achilles sneers at his request. Achilles stabs Hector in the shoulder and finishes him with his sword. He then drags the body back to the Greek camp. HOMERWOOD Achilles initiates his revenge mission by leading the Greeks into battle. He searches the battlefield for Hector who is hanging back. Hector approaches after Achilles kills one of his younger brothers. He is wearing Achillesí original armor. Athena deflects Hectorís spear and then Apollo engulfs Hector in a mist so Achilles cannot strike him. Achilles rampages over the battlefield killing so many Trojans that the survivors retreat into the city except for Hector. When Achilles nears, Hector loses his nerve and runs away. Achilles chases him around the city four times. Athena tricks Hector into making a stand by pretending to be his brother who will have his back. Before the duel commences, Hector proposes they treat each otherís corpse with respect. Achilles scorns the deal. Achilles throws his spear and misses. Hectorís spear bounces off Achillesís shield. Athena gives Achilles back his spear. Hector closes with his sword, but Achilles stabs Hector in the neck and kills him. Priam and Hecuba watch from the wall. Achilles ties Hectorís body to the back of his chariot and drags it around the city and eventually back to his tent.
            22. Priam visits Achilles to beg for his sonís body. HOMER This scene actually happens twelve days after the duel. Achilles is feasting with his friends when Priam arrives.
            23. Odysseus builds the Trojan Horse from ship timbers. HOMER It was Odysseusí idea, but probably constructed from wood from a sacred tree.
            24. Paris wants to burn the horse, but Priam decides to bring it in. HOMERWOOD Paris is no longer around to offer advice. A Trojan named Laocoon tries to warn about the ďgiftĒ, but a sea serpent sent by Posiedon silences him and helps convince Priam that the offering to Athena should be brought into the city. Cassandra is the member of the royal family that counsels against bringing in the horse, but of course no one believes her.
            25. Odysseus and Achilles are in the horse. They kill the sentries to let the Greek army in. HOMERWOOD Achilles is not alive at this point, but his son Neoptolemus is one of the horse fetuses. They do kill the sentries and open the gates for the Greek army and the sacking begins.
            26. Paris gives the Sword of Troy to the young Aeneas. HOLLYWOOD There was no ďSword of TroyĒ. Aeneas was one of the greatest Trojan warriors, not an unknown boy.
            27. Andromache and Helen escape. HOLLYWOOD Andromache was enslaved, but her and Hectorís son was murdered. Menelaus intended to kill Helen, but her beauty made him reconsider and they lived happily ever after.
            28. Agamemnon kills Priam by stabbing him from behind. HOMERWOOD Neopotolemus kills Priam.
            29. Achilles works his way to Briseis. Briseis kills Agamemnon. HOLLYWOOD Achilles is dead at this time. Agamemnon survives the war, but is killed by his wife Clytemnestra when he is taking a bath upon his return to his palace.
            30. Paris shoots Achilles in the ankle and then several other places. HOMERWOOD Paris had earlier been killed by an arrow shot by Philoctetes. Before this, he had shot Achilles in the heel with a poison arrow having learned of Achillesí vulnerable spot from one of his sisters who had cozied up to Achilles to get revenge for the death of Hector.
            31. Paris and Briseis escape. HOLLYWOOD Briseis ends up with one of Achillesí men.
            32. The war lasts 17 days. HOLLYWOOD It actually lasted ten years, which is known to anyone with half a brain.

            RATING = 40.3

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