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Letter From Iwo JUma

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    The Japanese during WWII were pathologically xenophobic, murdering our POW's in death camps, and would never have concerned themselves about a wounded US Marine unless they wanted to interrogate him under torture. They certainly would not have wasted their last morphine on him.
    They did interrogate the guy, and then bayoneted him.
    Divine Mercy Sunday: 4/21/2020 (https://www.thedivinemercy.org/message) The Miracle of Lanciano: Jesus' Real Presence (https://web.archive.org/web/20060831...fcontents.html)

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Since I'm not a fiercely indoctrinated, pathologically xenophobic WWII Japanese soldier my letters are irrelevant. Nice try at throwing out a strawman.
      You will recall that the title is "Letters from Iwo Jima.

      Indoctrinated doesn't mean clones. People, even indoctrinated people, still usually imagine themselves to be "good" however they define it, and still have fears, likes, worries, interpersonal issues and dramas.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by lynelhutz View Post
        You will recall that the title is "Letters from Iwo Jima.

        Indoctrinated doesn't mean clones. People, even indoctrinated people, still usually imagine themselves to be "good" however they define it, and still have fears, likes, worries, interpersonal issues and dramas.
        Already posted by another forum member and duly noted. However, that fact does not alter historical reality which is at major odds with the Japanese portrayal of themselves.

        This is a nation that required over half-a-century to even admit their participation in the Rape of Nanking, the murders of thousands of Allied POW's and the conscription of thousands of Korean women who were then forced into prostitution for the Japanese troops. They have yet to fully apologize or show any remorse for their barbarity, but we are now supposed to believe in the projected image of the kinder, gentler Japanese army desperately defending it's homeland from invasion while trying to be humane abut it?

        If you truly believe that, I suggest you read a book by Alfred Koppel: Lighter Than a Feather, taken from the Japanese teaching "Be resolved that duty is heavier than a mountain; death lighter than a feather." Terrific book and takes you inside the mindset of the Japanese of all ranks and stations and sexes. In fact, clones are exactly what the Japanese military made out of their soldiers and their civilians. The Japanese civilians were prepared to, and trained to, attack enemy tanks by strapping explosives on themselves and rolling underneath them, or running up to them and poking them with a satchel charge on a wooden pole. We dropped two nuclear weapons because of the homicidal devotion and willingness to die of the entire Japanese population. So where were they on Iwo Jima? We're presented with a commanding general that doesn't even want to fight by all appearances.

        I would have preferred that they simply show their true face at that time - indoctrinated into believing that they went to heaven when they died in combat, and that dying for the Emperor and for Japan was the most glorious ending to life.

        And while we're at it, Iwo Jima was receiving no supplies and had no more aircraft on the island at the time of the invasion, so how did mail go back and forth to Japan? Carrier tuna? Remember...all of the aircraft were transferred back to the Japan at the beginning of the film, so none of the events after the Marine invasion could have been recorded in letters to home.

        It's things like this that ruin otherwise serious attempts at film making.

        Some forum members liked it; others of us who are more acutely aware of history found it desperately lacking and didn't like it. After all of the effort that went into films like Flags Of Our Fathers and other films, what more can I say?
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Already posted by another forum member and duly noted. However, that fact does not alter historical reality which is at major odds with the Japanese portrayal of themselves.

          This is a nation that required over half-a-century to even admit their participation in the Rape of Nanking, the murders of thousands of Allied POW's and the conscription of thousands of Korean women who were then forced into prostitution for the Japanese troops. They have yet to fully apologize or show any remorse for their barbarity, but we are now supposed to believe in the projected image of the kinder, gentler Japanese army desperately defending it's homeland from invasion while trying to be humane abut it?
          It has nothing to do with any of those things, and it does in fact portray much of IJA and associates as savage racists, which they were. Iwo Jima was different than other places in that the commanding officer, Gen. Kuribayashi, was not cut from the same cloth as most of his compatriots. Unlike most of his countrymen he placed a high value on human life and cared for the well-being of his men. He, like Admiral Yamamoto in the Japanese Navy, had spent a great deal of time in the United States. He respected America and the American people, and he held little hatred toward them. He told his family "America is the last country in the world that Japan should fight."

          So no, even if the ground battle was just as (if not more) savage than anywhere else, the Japanese commander was neither a bigot nor a barbarian and does not deserve to be portrayed as such.
          Divine Mercy Sunday: 4/21/2020 (https://www.thedivinemercy.org/message) The Miracle of Lanciano: Jesus' Real Presence (https://web.archive.org/web/20060831...fcontents.html)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post


            Some forum members liked it; others of us who are more acutely aware of history found it desperately lacking and didn't like it. After all of the effort that went into films like Flags Of Our Fathers and other films, what more can I say?
            I'm nothing close to an apologist for Imperial Japan. They did horrible things and the lie is still passed around that it was somehow justified to attack the US because their oil was cut-off. As if it was cut-off out of the blue and entirely unrelated to a war of aggressive expansion elsewhere in Asia or that pulling back from this expansion to reinstate the oil was somehow inconceivable.

            But it isn't "revisionist" to simply acknowledge they were humans. Many would have been brutal militarists, others would have wished they were elsewhere but acting out of a sense of obligation or social pressure, others would have been young, nave and mostly just compliant.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by lynelhutz View Post
              Many would have been brutal militarists, others would have wished they were elsewhere but acting out of a sense of obligation or social pressure, others would have been young, nave and mostly just compliant.
              Sounds like an establishment I visited when I was on active duty in Japan.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                This is a nation that required over half-a-century to even admit their participation in the Rape of Nanking, the murders of thousands of Allied POW's and the conscription of thousands of Korean women who were then forced into prostitution for the Japanese troops.
                The very fact that you have to ask reveals that you know little about the actual culture you are talking about.
                Insular, prideful, private, hide-bound, yes. But they also know what political use can be made of such things, and were loathe to give that away... especially with China, where hundreds of movies are made every year (to this day) that show tend of thousands of Japanese being killed with great relish.

                And when can we expect an apology from Russia about the abuses the USSR committed in Eastern Europe? Thier looting of the infrastructure of Manchuria? 40 years of promoting the rise of Dictatorships all over the world for the purpose of winning the Cold War?
                Never gonna happen, ever, let alone 50 years after the fact.


                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                They have yet to fully apologize or show any remorse for their barbarity,
                Whoa, that is a subjective assessment, and even if true you are demanding far, far too much there.
                Unless you also support Reparations for slavery in the US and an apology & other damages from Spain to all the Latin American nations for 400 years of abuse (and other European nations as well) you are not being consistent.


                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                We dropped two nuclear weapons because of the homicidal devotion and willingness to die of the entire Japanese population. So where were they on Iwo Jima? We're presented with a commanding general that doesn't even want to fight by all appearances.
                He was a reluctant warrior, which may explain why he was sent to a place where he would have no choice. It would not have been a unique case; the officer commanding the tanks on Iwo Jima was a flamboyant Cavalry officer that made enemies in the army and was sent there to do what he did; die futilely.

                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                I would have preferred that they simply show their true face at that time - indoctrinated into believing that they went to heaven when they died in combat, and that dying for the Emperor and for Japan was the most glorious ending to life.
                They were, in 1942.
                This is 1945, when we have reports of Kamakaze "volunteers" doubling back to fire a burst into the Control Tower before winging off to do their thing. In Manchuria, the vast majority of soldiers that weren't under immediate attack were very willing to surrender. This has been used by the USSR to insinuate that the Pacific War was no big deal... were they right?

                Things had already begun to slip in 1943, men passing through noted a shocking decline in the proficiency and spirit of the men at the front in the span of just that year... but I don't want to bore into that Rabbit Hole just yet.

                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                so how did mail go back and forth to Japan?
                Obviously, it wasn't.
                One of many tricks the military uses to buck-up sagging morale' is to lie to the troops, and this was especially prevalent in the IJA when they were loosing. Telling the men to continue with the letters was one way to make them think that there was still contact with Home.
                Are you saying that these letters never existed?

                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Some forum members liked it; others of us who are more acutely aware of history found it desperately lacking and didn't like it...
                Oh, so those that agree with you must be more informed?
                Cheap shot, and it makes me wonder if this is a personal issue for you.

                You also make me wonder about how my hard-line attitude towards Muslims looks to other people now. However, that war is still going on and I can't permit myself the luxury.
                Yes, its still happening, unlike WW2.
                And you know what? When it was over, it was over for them. They don't snipe at us, they never pulled any terrorist-style crap on us when we were occupying them, and they don't threaten any of their neighbors or US.

                People have to let that which does not matter just slide away. Otherwise, we become the kind of human crud that finds endless pointless warfare acceptable.
                Just like you-know-who.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                  The Japanese during WWII were pathologically xenophobic, murdering our POW's in death camps, and would never have concerned themselves about a wounded US Marine unless they wanted to interrogate him under torture. They certainly would not have wasted their last morphine on him.
                  The few accounts I've read of people, both civilian and military, in Japanese captivity are almost universal: One Japanese may beat a prisoner repeatedly - even kill on a whim - while another will risk serious punishment just to pass on a little food or share a little conversation.

                  In other words: they're people. They cannot be characterized as a group.
                  Heaven knows, my son,
                  By what by-paths and indirect crook'd ways
                  I met this crown; and I myself know well,
                  How troublesome it sat upon my head.

                  Currently Reading: Blood Sisters - The Women Behind The Wars Of The Roses, Sarah Gristwood.

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