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  • Britain's Forgotten Slave Owners

    BBC 2 has just televised the first part of a two part series titled Britain's Forgotten Slave Owners. It is not currently available in the US. If anyone has seen it, I am interested in your opinion of it.
    To delight in war is a merit in the soldier, a dangerous quality in the captain, and a positive crime in the statesman. - George Santayana

  • #2
    Definitely worth a watch I think, and I will be watching the next installment. It brought home the extent of slave ownership within the country and the Empire. As well as how much slavery and the money that came in from it was a part of this country's economy, politics and society.

    I know you technically can't watch BBC iPlayer in the States, but there are some VPNs which are said to work. Not sure how reliable, good or safe different ones are.
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    • #3
      Saw it. Was interesting how many people owned slaves at the time of emancipation. Not just a few rich planation owners but people on pretty ordinary incomes would own them as investments.
      "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Sergio View Post
        Definitely worth a watch I think, and I will be watching the next installment. It brought home the extent of slave ownership within the country and the Empire. As well as how much slavery and the money that came in from it was a part of this country's economy, politics and society.

        I know you technically can't watch BBC iPlayer in the States, but there are some VPNs which are said to work. Not sure how reliable, good or safe different ones are.
        Thanks. I do have a VPN so I can change my IP to the UK. I'll watch it but I wanted to know if it is worthwhile to do so. I mentioned that it was not available in the US as I didn't expect anybody in the US to comment on it.
        To delight in war is a merit in the soldier, a dangerous quality in the captain, and a positive crime in the statesman. - George Santayana

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Surrey View Post
          Saw it. Was interesting how many people owned slaves at the time of emancipation. Not just a few rich planation owners but people on pretty ordinary incomes would own them as investments.
          Thanks. Looks interesting.
          To delight in war is a merit in the soldier, a dangerous quality in the captain, and a positive crime in the statesman. - George Santayana

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          • #6
            I do wish that they had got his conversion right. they had converted 1,000 of 1834 to 1000,000 in todays money, which is wrong.

            http://safalra.com/other/historical-...ce-conversion/

            Paul
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            All human ills he can subdue,
            Or with a bauble or medal
            Can win mans heart for you;
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            Give honour to the dainty Corse,
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Sergio View Post
              Definitely worth a watch I think, and I will be watching the next installment. It brought home the extent of slave ownership within the country and the Empire. As well as how much slavery and the money that came in from it was a part of this country's economy, politics and society.

              I know you technically can't watch BBC iPlayer in the States, but there are some VPNs which are said to work. Not sure how reliable, good or safe different ones are.
              Two or three years ago a British member made some remark about slavery in America and I brought up the extent of British participation in slavery which of course morphed into a thread where a lot of butthurt members flying Union Jacks or St. Georges treated me as if I was the devil incarnate. It was as bad if not worse than the Lost Causers in the American Civil War forum. I came to the conclusion that it was a very sensitive topic to Brits and so I am very surprised about this show.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Sergio View Post
                Definitely worth a watch I think, and I will be watching the next installment. It brought home the extent of slave ownership within the country and the Empire. As well as how much slavery and the money that came in from it was a part of this country's economy, politics and society.
                My understanding is that slavery was part and parcel of the Imperial experience, especially in the West Indies, but that chattel slavery was rather novel within the British Isles even prior to the 1770s: manpower was more than plentiful in that time and place, such that the powers-that-were in Great Britain and Ireland were more than happy to export it, to North America, the West Indies, Australia, etc. Is that understanding in need of rectifying?

                Originally posted by Salinator View Post
                Two or three years ago a British member made some remark about slavery in America and I brought up the extent of British participation in slavery which of course morphed into a thread where a lot of butthurt members flying Union Jacks or St. Georges treated me as if I was the devil incarnate. It was as bad if not worse than the Lost Causers in the American Civil War forum. I came to the conclusion that it was a very sensitive topic to Brits and so I am very surprised about this show.
                I myself have always had my theories about your relationship with the Prince of Darkness.
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                • #9
                  Do British blacks belong to a victim culture like the American ones?
                  Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                    My understanding is that slavery was part and parcel of the Imperial experience, especially in the West Indies, but that chattel slavery was rather novel within the British Isles even prior to the 1770s: manpower was more than plentiful in that time and place, such that the powers-that-were in Great Britain and Ireland were more than happy to export it, to North America, the West Indies, Australia, etc. Is that understanding in need of rectifying?



                    I myself have always had my theories about your relationship with the Prince of Darkness.
                    If you read the judgement in the Mansfield case you will see why slavery was rare and ceased in the UK itself before it did in the Empire. There is no provision under Common law for slavery. Thus Habias corpus applies and slavery is illegal. However in the Colonies, including what was to become the U.S. there were laws enabling slavery. Even pre Mansfield in England the weight of case law tended to make slavery difficult.
                    "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                      If you read the judgement in the Mansfield case you will see why slavery was rare and ceased in the UK itself before it did in the Empire. There is no provision under Common law for slavery. Thus Habias corpus applies and slavery is illegal. However in the Colonies, including what was to become the U.S. there were laws enabling slavery. Even pre Mansfield in England the weight of case law tended to make slavery difficult.
                      It didn't end in Britain: it was merely replaced by indentured servitude, starvation wages or nothing, child labor and the use of children in orphanages to do filthy work for nothing to "earn their keep". One of their usual jobs was to pick apart thick strands of hemp rope to make oakum, used to caulk seams on ships, a practice that went on 12 hours a day and left little children with bloody hands from the rough fibers, all for two pitiful meals a day - usually of watery gruel or "soup" without meat - and no pay.

                      The Brits also continued their slavery practices in the West Indies and elsewhere until much later.

                      They also enslaved both their army and their navy under cruel and terrible conditions enforced by being lashed to death for the slightest complaint.
                      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                      • #12
                        My missus and I went to Penrhyn castle in N Wales. It was certainly very different to all the Edward 1 castles we had been to. Different to all the Welsh 10-12th century Princes dwellings to.

                        We were told the Lords servants were treated particularly well. That might be true.

                        The fact that this particular lord made his money off spices and sugar in the West Indies in the late 1800's makes me believe he is less than Kosher. Essentially he had slaves.

                        Plenty of British people were using and abusing slaves well beyond it was banned in Britain.

                        However, to state that Britain was worse than other countries in this regard is wrong.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                          If you read the judgement in the Mansfield case you will see why slavery was rare and ceased in the UK itself before it did in the Empire. There is no provision under Common law for slavery. Thus Habias corpus applies and slavery is illegal. However in the Colonies, including what was to become the U.S. there were laws enabling slavery. Even pre Mansfield in England the weight of case law tended to make slavery difficult.
                          As indicated in another thread, slavery within Britain was quite unknown, this situation going back to the sixteenth century.(vide Carter case 1569).
                          Last edited by BELGRAVE; 17 Jul 15, 18:58.
                          "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            It didn't end in Britain: it was merely replaced by indentured servitude, starvation wages or nothing, child labor and the use of children in orphanages to do filthy work for nothing to "earn their keep". One of their usual jobs was to pick apart thick strands of hemp rope to make oakum, used to caulk seams on ships, a practice that went on 12 hours a day and left little children with bloody hands from the rough fibers, all for two pitiful meals a day - usually of watery gruel or "soup" without meat - and no pay.

                            The Brits also continued their slavery practices in the West Indies and elsewhere until much later.

                            They also enslaved both their army and their navy under cruel and terrible conditions enforced by being lashed to death for the slightest complaint.
                            Standard nonsense argument that being poor is as bad as slavery.

                            btw indentured servitude was used extensively BEFORE slavery in the West Indies. It had ceased long before the abolition.
                            "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Do British blacks belong to a victim culture like the American ones?
                              Yes, but not because of slavery.

                              Cheers,
                              Dan.
                              So long as men worship the Caesars and Napoleons, Caesars and Napoleons will duly rise and make them miserable.

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