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The White Queen

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  • #16
    Eh, not a bad movie for starters but not so great either. Around 7.5-8.5 stars.
    "With foxes we must play the fox."
    -Thomas Fuller

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Are you sure?
      Henry Vii's father was Edmund Tudor, the half brother of Henry VI. They shared the same mother, Catherine of Valois. Thus his loyalty was to Lancaster. However this in itself did not give him a claim.

      His claim to the throne, apart from that of by conquest, was through his mother, Margaret Beaufort's descent from John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster, the third son of King Edward III. The Beaufort's were descended from the children of John of Gaunt's mistress (later wife) Katherine Swynford. They were born illegitimate but were later legitimized by Act of Parliament. The Act that legitimized Katherine's children stipulated that they could never claim the throne but after every other Lancaster heir was dead this became just a technicality.

      Of course Edward iv, Richard III and the Kingmaker were also all descended from Beauforts. It gets complicated....

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Beaufort
      Last edited by Surrey; 28 Aug 13, 12:44.
      "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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      • #18
        It can be argued that both houses won in the end. Henry VII did marry a daughter of Edward IV. The Tudors are basically a merger of both the Lancasters andYorks. Iirc, Henry's wife, Elizabeth of York, had a better claim to the throne.
        If the art of war were nothing but the art of avoiding risks,glory would become the prey of mediocre minds. Napoleon

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Legate View Post
          It can be argued that both houses won in the end. Henry VII did marry a daughter of Edward IV. The Tudors are basically a merger of both the Lancasters andYorks. Iirc, Henry's wife, Elizabeth of York, had a better claim to the throne.
          Henry made a point of crowning himself and coronating himself before he married to make the point that he was king in his own own right and wasn't dependant on his wife. He was king first and foremost by right of conquest.
          He married Elizabeth to eliminate a Yorkist threat. If he had not married Elizabeth then any children she or her sisters had would be a threat to himself and his heirs.
          You are correct in that under male preference primogeniture Elizabeth had a better claim than Henry, assuming she wasn't illegitimate....This was the same for all the Yorkists as they were descended from the second son of Edward iii, the Duke of Clarence, whereas all the Lancastrians including Henry VII were descended from he third son, the Duke of Lancaster.

          Henry VII and his son Henry viii went on to exterminate anyone who had a even a slight Yorkist claim. They even executed women for dynastic reasons, something which the Yorkists had shirked from, to their cost.
          Last edited by Surrey; 28 Aug 13, 16:55.
          "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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          • #20
            I love the characters, drama, and intrigue, but I was so disappointed in the episode with Barnet and Tewkesbury. I was all set for a grand battle scene with longbowmen and knights in gothic armor and I got a few guys in chainmail and half plate running across the stream in the fog and a total of two arrows fired into some poor groom. The costuming for the armor just didn't do it for me. They should have contracted Graham Turner for the scenes.
            TTFN

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