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New WW2 Movie: Red Tails

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Stryker 19K30 View Post
    http://blip.tv/redlettermedia/half-i...-tails-5913941

    Why you can't make a throw back propaganda style movie, AND at the same time claim it to be some historical movie.
    I agree 100%
    Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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    • #47
      On the idea that the Tuskegee Airmen sank a German destroyer, does anyone actually know which vessel this is?

      I tried searching online. First I thought it was the former Italian destroyer pressed into German service, the Aurige, which is about the size of a Destroyer Escort. But apparently this may not be the case as that vessel was in the wrong part of the Adriatic Sea to fit the Tuskegee Airmen's report, and it may be another Italian destroyer, the Giussepi Missori, that was attacked, except that it wasn't sink.

      So, what's the real deal here?
      Last edited by Ogukuo72; 01 Feb 12, 09:01.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Ogukuo72 View Post
        On the idea that the Tuskegee Airmen sank a German destroyer, does anyone actually know which vessel this is?

        I tried searching online. First I thought it was the former Italian destroyer pressed into German service, the Aurige, which is about the size of a Destroyer Escort. But apparently this may not be the case as that vessel was in the wrong part of the Adriatic Sea to fit the Tuskegee Airmen's report, and it may be another Italian destroyer, the Giussepi Missori, that was attacked, except that it wasn't sink.

        So, what's the real deal here?
        From I what I looked up,

        it would have to be the TA-22,

        formerly an Italian WW1 Destroyer pressed into German service and converted for for torpedo use.

        The TA-22 was heavily damaged in the attack, but was not sunk, contrary to popular belief.

        http://books.google.com/books?id=iPN...page&q&f=false
        "Hit hard when you start, but don't start until you have everything ready." - Lt. Gen. James Longstreet

        Pyrrhus Travels West:
        Hanno the Infamous, General of Carthage, Rb Mhnt of Sicily

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        • #49
          Interesting book, there. And apparently, the exemplary record for bomber escort wasn't the Tuskegee Airmen's alone, but for the fighter squadrons of the entire group.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by semperpietas View Post
            From I what I looked up,

            it would have to be the TA-22,

            formerly an Italian WW1 Destroyer pressed into German service and converted for for torpedo use.

            The TA-22 was heavily damaged in the attack, but was not sunk, contrary to popular belief.

            http://books.google.com/books?id=iPN...page&q&f=false
            I was about to say.....short of causing a catastrophic torpedo detonation, or a fuel fire that results in abandonment and eventual sinking, I can't think of any way that strafing fire from .50 cals alone can actually Sink anything more capable than a PT boat or a tugboat. It's not like it's a 40mm cannon and can possibly penetrate a turret top or into something else potentially explosive. The only real chance is to hit torpedo tubes on the deck and hope you can induce a detonation.
            Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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            • #51
              Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
              I was about to say.....short of causing a catastrophic torpedo detonation, or a fuel fire that results in abandonment and eventual sinking, I can't think of any way that strafing fire from .50 cals alone can actually Sink anything more capable than a PT boat or a tugboat. It's not like it's a 40mm cannon and can possibly penetrate a turret top or into something else potentially explosive. The only real chance is to hit torpedo tubes on the deck and hope you can induce a detonation.
              Even Japanese daihatsu barges were difficult to sink out right with simple strafing, although six to eight 0.50in machine guns can put a lot of hurt on whatever and whoever were riding in them.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by warmoviebuff View Post
                “Red Tails” has everything that is wrong with a Hollywood history movie. It takes a story it claims is “inspired by true events” and uses those true events to structure an edifice of sappitude. In the tradition of atrocities like “Wind Talkers”, you can check off all the aspects that depress war movie lovers like me. Trite musical score – check. Sappy dialogue – check. Cliches – check. Stereotype characters – check. Gross exaggeration of historical events – check. Ridiculously over the top explosions – check. Pious moralizing – check. Evil Nazi antagonist – check. Tacked in romance - check.

                The movie begins with the unit limited to ground missions which at least allows them to blow up a train with lots of pyrotechnics. We are introduced to the usual stereotypes. The two main characters are “Lightning” Little (David Oyelowo) hot shot pilot, ladies man, disobedient (you know the type) and “Easy” Julian (Nate Parker) – bottle-hitter with daddy issues. Not to mention the super religious guy (Black Jesus fan), the field hand (for comic relief), the rookie, the grumpy crew chief, etc. We bounce back and forth from the air base to the Pentagon where the racists are trying to disband the unit because they do not shoot down German fighters. How can they when they aren’t given a chance?! (“Glory” be!)

                When they are given a chance we are treated to set pieces that include their incredibly successful first dogfight (reminiscent of “Fly Boys” CGI whirling chaos), the strafe-destruction of an air field, the strafe-destruction of a German destroyer by “Lightning”, and a tangle with German jet fighters (which includes a duel between Lightning and Pretty Boy!). You get to catch your breath in between with the requisite romance between “Lightning” and a white Italian woman named Sophia (Daniella Ruah), Pentagon racism versus simmering give-us-a-chance-you-racist-bastard posturing, conflict between the hot shot and the rule-follower, and trite airmen banter.

                The big breakthrough comes when the 332nd Fighter Group volunteers to provide close escort for the white bomber crews. Do you think they will gain the respect of the white crews? Will there be a scene where one of the blacks is refused admittance to an officers’ club followed later by a scene where the blacks are bonhommed at the same club? Guess.

                If you took a shot every time someone says something cringe-inducing in this movie, you would be drunk very soon. Here’s a very limited sampler:
                “They done shot down the whole Luftwaffer.”
                “Lightning, when are you going to learn this is not a game?”
                “How you like that, Mr. Hitler?”
                “Die, you foolish African” (spoken by the Nazi “Pretty Boy”)

                Surprisingly, the “true events” are ball-park true. They were limited to just ground missions which resulted in talk of disbanding based on lack of kills. They did participate in ground support for the invasion of Pantelleria (Operation Shingle in the movie). They did sink a destroyer. They did earn a reputation for disciplined escorting of bombers. They did successfully take on ME-262’s in a raid on a tank parts factory outside Berlin. The problem is all of these are grossly exaggerated in the movie.

                The Tuskegee Airmen deserve a good movie. Now they have two strikes against them and it is highly unlikely they will ever get their just reward. George Lucas’ “Red Tails” is the second strike (the first was HBOs “Tuskegee Airmen” which is arguably a better movie). I had eagerly waited for this movie because I teach about the Tuskegee Airmen, but the commercials gave me an inkling of my disappointment (although the CGI was not that bad in the movie) and then there was a pre-movie trailer for the new 3D “The Phantom Menace” to remind me of the damage Lucas is capable of. Premonition confirmed.
                From what I can recall having seen of your previous postings, your views on war movies tend often to align fairly closely to my own. Based on this, the chances are that my impressions of the movie will be similar to yours.

                So, sooner or later I'll see the movie but I won't have high hopes.

                mostly align with my own. My guess is that
                "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Ogukuo72 View Post
                  Even Japanese daihatsu barges were difficult to sink out right with simple strafing, although six to eight 0.50in machine guns can put a lot of hurt on whatever and whoever were riding in them.
                  I have to say, that when I read of the sinking of a destroyer in such a manner I was extremely skeptical. I'd have to see absolute proof to believe it.
                  "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
                    I was about to say.....short of causing a catastrophic torpedo detonation, or a fuel fire that results in abandonment and eventual sinking, I can't think of any way that strafing fire from .50 cals alone can actually Sink anything more capable than a PT boat or a tugboat. It's not like it's a 40mm cannon and can possibly penetrate a turret top or into something else potentially explosive. The only real chance is to hit torpedo tubes on the deck and hope you can induce a detonation.
                    Yes, I am thinking along very similar lines.
                    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
                      I'll wait for the DVD. I'm a little leery of a WW2 movie showing (in the trailer) the pilots standing in a circle and doing an almost football rave-up (chanting) ala Ray Lewis and the Baltimore Ravens or Drew Brees and the Saints. Makes me think it was added for today's audience. I doubt very seriously that really happened.
                      I'll be waiting for the DVD too. After the price drops.
                      "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
                        I think I'll take it for what it is, a no-brainer popcorn movie. I don't mind cliche as long as it is enjoyable, ie as in Independence Day (which I like) and not Pearl Harbour (which is dire imo).
                        I think they were both total shyte but at least Independence Day wasn't a butchering of history, so it could be enjoyed as a popcorn cruncher without my usual inhibitions.
                        Last edited by panther3485; 03 Feb 12, 08:57.
                        "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by semperpietas View Post
                          From I what I looked up,

                          it would have to be the TA-22,

                          formerly an Italian WW1 Destroyer pressed into German service and converted for for torpedo use.

                          The TA-22 was heavily damaged in the attack, but was not sunk, contrary to popular belief.

                          http://books.google.com/books?id=iPN...page&q&f=false
                          Very interesting.
                          "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            My understanding of the destroyer incident is that a round entered an open hatch, and detonated a magazine.

                            I figure I will see it on DVD, my expectations are not all that high so I should not be disappointed.

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