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W.E.B. Griffin

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  • #16
    I am working my way through the Brotherhood Of War series. I am starting The Majors today. I have all 9 books on my iPod. I've read The Corps several times and have enjoyed it a lot. Have not had a chance to check out the Men At War series, but have heard it is just as good as his other stuff......

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    • #17
      Originally posted by TheBubba View Post
      I am working my way through the Brotherhood Of War series. I am starting The Majors today. I have all 9 books on my iPod. I've read The Corps several times and have enjoyed it a lot. Have not had a chance to check out the Men At War series, but have heard it is just as good as his other stuff......
      I have probably read the Brotherhood of War series 8 or 9 times since about 1995. Have read The Corps series at least 5 times.
      Too Much To Do Too Little Time

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      • #18
        Being a Mustang will also probably get him on the forcibly retired list after Korea. It is too long a period after Korea to see him still in at say Colonel when Vietnam starts.
        Pruitt, not necessarily. The post-Korea Reduction in Force was in 1957. Those caught up in that RIF went back to their original ranks and dates of rank at retirement. This is what held up senior enlisted promotions in the late 50s early 60s, and resulted in the practice of now adjusting dates of enlisted rank for RIFFed officers.

        To cite a case I knew, 1SG E-8 Edward E. Jones. Had only three or four months command time as a Captain in the 2nd Infantry Division in Korea. Badly wounded in Feb '51, he spent most of '51 in hospital recuperating. RIFFed in 1957, and appointed 1SG E-7 (WWII rank equivalent) with date of rank 1944. Re-enlisted for Air Defense Artillery, and got an RO serial number. In 1964 he was 1st SGT (E-8) of an ADA Battery at Loring AFB. DA put out a message stating that former officers who desired to be recalled to active duty could submit their packets and recommendations from their Chain of Command. Jones put in his packet. In 1965 he was recalled to Active Duty as a Lieutenant Colonel. He had re-branched in the Reserves to ADA, and taken the ADA Officers Basic, and Advanced Correspondence courses, and the Command and General Staff College via correspondence. Ergo, he had been promoted to Major and LTC in the Reserves. Back on active duty again as an LTC, he was sent to Fort Bliss, TX for a Hawk course, then received orders for Vietnam. In 1970 I ran into him at the Fort Bliss PX. He had recently retired a Colonel (0-6).

        So, it would have been possible for a Korean War riftee to have come back to active duty and see Vietnam. It wasn't very common simply because the great majority of those "rifted" moved to other careers that turned them away from the military. In the 1980s, the 7th SFG in Panama had Major Ben Lyons, a mustang who after combat tours with both the 173rd and SF got riffed in '72 and re-enlisted in his SF enlisted MOS as an E-5. Ben quickly moved up to E-7. During the Reagan revolution, with its emphasis on Spec Ops, Ben's commander suggested he put in a packet with Accession Branch. They told him they were only taking people with advanced Engineer degrees, but a few months later Ben was called to active duty as an SF Major, and retired a Lieutenant Colonel after a full career.

        If I were writing a novel, I guess my former riftee character would have to be of the quality of a Ben Lyons or Edward E. Jones. Both of them had about as much chance going on to a successful career and retiring at an appropriate rank as a MACVSOG E-4 in 1969 named Eldon Bargewell had to become an officer, command Delta and later JSOC, and retire as a Major General with 100% pay.

        The nice thing about writing is that sometimes you discover that there are real people who are even more amazing than anything you can invent.
        dit: Lirelou

        Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá ǵ!

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        • #19
          I was thinking of the case of Anthony Herbert, who was highly decorated enlisted man in the Korean War. He met Eleanor Roosevelt in 1951 who advised him to get a college degree because she said that sooner or later the Army would release its Mustang Officers so they could retain the ones with college degrees. Like you say, many re-enlisted as enlisted men. Back then you could retire after 20 years and your pension was based on highest rank held. A Major in say the Air Force could get passed over twice, get released, and then re-enlist as an E-4 and then stay in for a few years and get his pension. I don't think they allow this any more!

          Pruitt
          Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

          Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

          by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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          • #20
            Originally posted by lirelou View Post
            To cite a case I knew, 1SG E-8 Edward E. Jones. Had only three or four months command time as a Captain in the 2nd Infantry Division in Korea. Badly wounded in Feb '51, he spent most of '51 in hospital recuperating. RIFFed in 1957, and appointed 1SG E-7 (WWII rank equivalent) with date of rank 1944. Re-enlisted for Air Defense Artillery, and got an RO serial number. In 1964 he was 1st SGT (E-8) of an ADA Battery at Loring AFB. DA put out a message stating that former officers who desired to be recalled to active duty could submit their packets and recommendations from their Chain of Command. Jones put in his packet. In 1965 he was recalled to Active Duty as a Lieutenant Colonel. He had re-branched in the Reserves to ADA, and taken the ADA Officers Basic, and Advanced Correspondence courses, and the Command and General Staff College via correspondence. Ergo, he had been promoted to Major and LTC in the Reserves. Back on active duty again as an LTC, he was sent to Fort Bliss, TX for a Hawk course, then received orders for Vietnam. In 1970 I ran into him at the Fort Bliss PX. He had recently retired a Colonel (0-6).
            Shaun,

            This is all very confusing to an outsider, like say for example, moi.

            1) How could an ADA NCO on Active Duty be called to Active Duty as an ADA Officer? Isn't that redundant?

            2) Are you saying that an Active Duty NCO can also be an Officer in the Reserve? Or Guard?

            3) A senior NCO or Officer that is RIF'd can re-enlist as a lower ranked enlisted man? Again, isn't that defeating the point of the RIF? To reduce the numbers?

            I haven't been this confused since the last episode of Lost.

            Cheers,
            Dan.
            So long as men worship the Caesars and Napoleons, Caesars and Napoleons will duly rise and make them miserable.

            Aldous Huxley: Ends and Means (1937)

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            • #21
              Dan, Jones was an Infantry officer when riffed. Barring a change of branch, for which he would have had to show the proper branch qualification, he would have remained an Infantry Reserve Officer while serving as an Nike Hercules qualified ADA enlisted man. Those correspondence courses he took were what qualified him to request a Branch change, and ADA Branch, after reviewing his enlisted files, determined that he was qualified enough to accept an assignment within an ADA command as a field grade officer. ADA is one of those highly technical branches, and the meat of that expertise is exercised by the non-commissioned officers.

              Yes, active duty enlisted personnel can hold commissions in the Reserves (not Guard). They serve in the Individual Ready Reserve (not troop units) and keep those commissions as long as they keep up with their professional development on a par with other Reserve Officers, and ensure a fitness report is submitted from their Active Duty commander on an annual basis, evaluating their potential as Reserve Officers. On occasion, when their physical attendance at military educational courses is required, and their enlisted chain of command concurs, RO's on Enlisted Service can be discharged, called to immediate active duty as reserve officers, attend that course or phase of a course, and revert to their enlisted status upon completion of their active duty for training, thus returning to their unit.

              3. The Reduction in Force I'm referring to covered officers only. Warrants and Senior Enlisted were under different rules. Officers who had been Specialist or Sergeant E-5 or higher could reenlist as Sergeants E-5 or in the highest grade they honorably vacated. During the Vietnam RIFs, officers who were never previously served as enlisted (ROTC, West Point, etc) could enlist as Sergeants E-5 if they had a Silver Star or higher valor award.

              Hope this didn't confuse you further.
              dit: Lirelou

              Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá ǵ!

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