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is Orwell's ''1984'' a defamation of Stalin ?

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  • Originally posted by General Staff View Post
    1) Shame on you. And me English too.
    English? As in Orange? Don't that make you rather a fish out of water? :lol:

    2) I do. How else can you get them to listen? So many years spent hearing only the echoed report of a Nagan...
    I know not your age, but you seem like a nice enough fellow. No two people can agree on all moral issues. These days we have a lot of moralist types, both of religious and non-religious slants. What they share in common is a lack of appreciation for the difficulties involved in the practicalities of daily life. Unless something can be described as "struggle," "good and evil," "moral or immoral," they're not interested. One of Bolshevism's greatest failings was that it was dominated by such preachy types, and the morality was often force-fed down people's throats. Better and easier it is to just let people persue their lives with as little interference as possible from the preachy crowd. Just leave folks alone to do their thing and they'll turn out far better than if they're led by politicians/clerics/revolutionaries/moralists/et al.

    I look forward to your best efforts and welcome. I notice Brooklyn- are we talking Brighton Beach here?
    You're too kind, sir. As for the locale, Brighton Beach is about 8 km to my south, but my mother lives there now, so I see the place often enough. These days Russians are not restricted to Brighton Beach, however. They live all over Brooklyn. Indeed, older generations of Russians and Ukrainians settled other parts of Brooklyn, such as Williamsburg and East New York, and plenty of them settled the East Side of Manhattan (Lower East Side, Murray Hill, Turtle Bay, Yorkville) as well.
    I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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    • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
      1) English? As in Orange? Don't that make you rather a fish out of water? :lol:
      2) I know not your age, but you seem like a nice enough fellow.
      3) You're too kind, sir....These days Russians are not restricted to Brighton Beach, however. They live all over Brooklyn. Indeed, older generations of Russians and Ukrainians settled other parts of Brooklyn, such as Williamsburg and East New York, and plenty of them settled the East Side of Manhattan (Lower East Side, Murray Hill, Turtle Bay, Yorkville) as well.
      1) As in Apple. Though not necessarily big. Fish out of water? Sometimes.
      2) Cold War. You too. Still speak Russian?
      3) Not at all. I was an immigrant there myself once. Even lived in Turtle Bay, Greenwich Village, Upper East Side, Astoria and Roosevelt Island (tram no subway then).

      LATE EDIT: I grew up with Billy Joel. Great Lyrics and just read your link. Stalin would probably appreciate it.
      Last edited by General Staff; 08 Aug 07, 17:39.
      Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
      (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

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      • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
        Not only were Stalin's works heavily edited even within his lifetime, but there has long been some serious doubt about Stalin's authorship.
        then -
        stop quoting him and especially those of his remarks (''...death of millions is statistics'' etc.) he did never say.

        Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
        Try reading Hohol...
        what you mean by ''try'' ?
        this Gogol (who by nationality was Ukranian and hated Russia, btw) was an obligatory read in Soviet schools back then,
        so his ''Dead Souls'', ''Revizor'' and ''Taras Bulba'' i know very well.

        Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
        try reading up on Vyatka and Novgorod...
        no more of these bollocks on ''how Russia was once a democratic state'', please...

        Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
        ... Guys like our own little Stalin here represent the worst in the Russian character...
        we Russians are generally bad, and so what ?
        does that mean you wouldn't want to share this planet with us no more ??

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        • Originally posted by pirateship1982 View Post
          So all those people who walked into the gulag...mass graves...rape, torture, and murder...burn marks, scarring and paralysis...
          making up a fairy-tales, mate ?
          would you mind to provide some evidence for these absurdical assertions you've just made ??

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          • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
            ...These days Russians are not restricted to Brighton Beach...
            now, for Christ's sake tell me - since when Jews of Brighton Beach are being called ''Russians'' ??...

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            • Originally posted by stalin View Post
              making up a fairy-tales, mate ?
              would you mind to provide some evidence for these absurdical assertions you've just made ??
              You know, I am beginning to think Stalin really believes all the crap he appears to believe in.

              Perfect example of someone raised in a country that makes revision of the truth a state sanctioned habit.

              I guess we should all pity him.
              Life is change. Built models for decades.
              Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
              I didn't for a long time either.

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              • There's another way to look at all this. Homo Sovieticus. One of the marvels of the 20th Century.

                Gentlemen (and women), take a step back, salute and gaze in wonder...
                Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
                (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

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                • Originally posted by Aries View Post
                  ... Stalin really believes all the crap he appears to believe in...I guess we should all pity him.
                  no, you'd best support your accusation against J.Stalin with some proof.

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                  • Originally posted by stalin View Post
                    no, you'd best support your accusation against J.Stalin with some proof.
                    No Stalin, you'd best start proving all your idiotic assertions that run contrary to widely accepted historical facts that are not being challenged by anyone with any credible education.

                    The only one here having a crisis of fact is you.

                    If you insist on looking like a dolt, we will be permitted to dismiss any inane comment you make too.

                    It's really quite something that you are sufficiently incapable of seeing how idiotic it is that you chose an ESTABLISHED mass murdering despot as your nickname. I wouldn't cut anyone else any slack if they joined the forum and choose to call themselves Hitler either.

                    There's national pride, and then there's blatant idiocy.
                    Life is change. Built models for decades.
                    Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
                    I didn't for a long time either.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Aries View Post
                      ... your idiotic assertions...run contrary to widely accepted historical facts that are not being challenged by anyone with any credible education.
                      a widely accepted historical fact is that Roosevelt and Churchill shook hands and signed documents with Stalin.
                      it seems like your education failed to enlighten you on that.
                      another historical fact: no investigation whatsoever was done, so nothing of what Stalin is accused of was proven.
                      you see, your ''education'' is merely a piece of paper - flush it down the toilet.

                      Originally posted by Aries View Post
                      ... idiotic it is that you chose an ESTABLISHED mass murdering despot as your nickname...
                      once again,
                      ask any lawyer - if Stalin is an ''established mass-murderer'', and you'll get the answer: '' no he is not ''.
                      the mass-murderers were Hitler and Goebbels -
                      while Stalin and, say, Mao were internationally acknowledged political figures.

                      go back to school, mate...

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                      • Originally posted by stalin View Post
                        making up a fairy-tales, mate ?
                        would you mind to provide some evidence for these absurdical assertions you've just made ??
                        You mean aside from just about every single history book covering WWII and it's buildup?

                        Let's see we have the eyewitness testimonies of:

                        Richard Wurmbrand, author of Tortured for Christ, who personally endured the hospitality of the Soviet police system and bore many scars of his "rehabilitation".
                        Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, author of The Gulag Archipelago - which contains eyewitness accounts from more than just himself.
                        Return from the Archipelago: Narratives of Gulag Survivors - by Leona Toker.

                        All of these chronicle inhumane forced labor, rape, and torture.

                        We have National Geographic coverage and photographs of the gulag once the iron curtain dropped and more eyewitness testimonies from them. More accounts of inhumane treatment.

                        While your at it read The Great Terror: Stalin’s Purge of the Thirties by Robert Conquest.

                        But hey, if several thousand eyewitness testimonies and massive historical documentation can't destroy your delusions, there isn't much I can do.
                        A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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                        • I hearby declare Stalin too stupid to waste time discussing anything with. He's bought the crap hook line and sinker, wouldn't believe any evidence we cared to offer, and truly sees nothing wrong with using Stalin's name as an online identity.

                          Bye Stalin, you are on ignore as being a waste of screen space viewing you deluded drivel.
                          Life is change. Built models for decades.
                          Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
                          I didn't for a long time either.

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                          • Originally posted by Aries View Post
                            ...deluded drivel.
                            Aren't we being a little harsh on the lad here? I mean look at his handicaps- ex-Soviet with all that entails, but he does speak English reasonably so his Mother can't be all bad.

                            I'd share his aversion to Brighton Beach (though not the same one) and his anti-Semitism could possibly be corrected over time with intensive Russian language therapy. He's also obviously deeply Christian, so there should be a lot of leeway philosophically and a cheek or two to turn there.
                            Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
                            (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by pirateship1982 View Post
                              ... But hey, if several thousand eyewitness testimonies and massive historical documentation can't destroy your delusions, there isn't much I can do.
                              you would do a lot if provided me with documents and not with just fiction novels/propagandistic brainwash like A.Solzshenitsyn or National Geographic.

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                              • Originally posted by Aries View Post
                                ... Bye Stalin...
                                bye Aries... ( here: a smilie of weeping Beria / O'Brien )

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