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is Orwell's ''1984'' a defamation of Stalin ?

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  • is Orwell's ''1984'' a defamation of Stalin ?

    to me it's clear:
    big brother - j.stalin
    o'brian - l.beria
    goldstein - l.trotzky(bronstein)
    also, executed ''traitors'':
    jones, aaronson & rutherford - bukharin, kamenev & zinoviev

    imo - the book itself is pages and pages of fun !
    i recognise every detail of life of then soviet union orwell subjected to mockery.
    however, while recognising ''details of life'' - i do somehow not recognise ''life'' itself.
    how come that ?
    maybe because - life can not be so perfectly bad ?

    it is impossible that everything is so bad that even gin and cigarettes are bad, that even movies and hallways stink,
    that even children are bad.
    all this is impossible simply due to the fact that life itself is imperfect.

    there's no perfect evil as there's no perfect good.
    that's why ''1984'', imo, somewhat lacks certain depth...

    also, the ''atmosphere'' in the soviet union wasn't near as gloomy as in ''1984''.
    and nobody felt being ''watched'' too.
    so, the state described in orwell's ''1984'' has nothing in common with any possible reality.

  • #2
    for those who haven't read it yet:
    George Orwell - ''1984''

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    • #3
      I'd rather reread Pasternak's Doctor Zhivago

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      • #4
        Is it actually possible to defamate a mass murderer like Stalin ?????

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        • #5
          Defamation? No.



          A warning against Totalitarianism in all forms (Stalin being the best example at the time)? Definitely.
          ďTo discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which is one of the foundations of American life.Ē

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis View Post
            I'd rather reread Pasternak's Doctor Zhivago
            pasternak wasn't into politics the way orwell was.
            his novel ''dr.szhivago'' is about ''love during civil war etc.''

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            • #7
              Originally posted by redcoat View Post
              Is it actually possible to defamate a mass murderer like Stalin ?????
              why ''mass murderer'' ?
              stalin didn't order any ''mass murders'' to be committed.
              orwell is biased against stalin and beria, imo.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by stalin View Post
                why ''mass murderer'' ?
                stalin didn't order any ''mass murders'' to be committed.

                Really? Then who ordered the Katyn massacre?
                Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by stalin View Post
                  it is impossible that everything is so bad that even gin and cigarettes are bad, that even movies and hallways stink,
                  that even children are bad.
                  You have never been to Aberdeen have you?
                  Wolster

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Overseer View Post
                    Defamation? No. A warning against Totalitarianism in all forms (Stalin being the best example at the time)? Definitely.
                    imo, orwell missed the point here.
                    whatever totalitarian the state, it can not be that perfect at its totalitarism.

                    orwell depicts a state so perfect - it is attractive in its perfection.
                    so - eventually, one might start to feel attracted to intimidating perfection of a 1984's state - just the way some people feel attracted to horror movies, nowadays.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tsar View Post
                      Really? Then who ordered the Katyn massacre?
                      the ''katyn massacre'' was a collective decision.
                      stalin was just one of those who signed this document which didn't contain a direct implication of ''massacre''.

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                      • #12
                        from left to right: big brother (joseph stalin), o'brien (lavrenty beria), goldstein (leon trotsky-bronstein).

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by stalin View Post
                          the ''katyn massacre'' was a collective decision.
                          stalin was just one of those who signed this document which didn't contain a direct implication of ''massacre''.
                          No Iím sure it didnít. Iím sure it didnít use the words kill them all either. It probably used some euphemism such as to eliminate the possibility of their raising a revolt against the guards. Etc.
                          Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

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                          • #14
                            actually, it was put as: ''consider their case in special order implying application of death penalty''.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by stalin View Post
                              pasternak wasn't into politics the way orwell was.
                              his novel ''dr.szhivago'' is about ''love during civil war etc.''
                              yup. better book.

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