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orwell's ''animal farm'': must-read?

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  • orwell's ''animal farm'': must-read?

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    there are many in a world who deem ''animal farm'' by george orwell - an essential book for those who attempt to understand the very nature of totalitarism.
    as for me - i'm not among them...
    i.m.o. - the satire is not what it takes for understanding such a controversial subject as totalitarian state.
    so, what you think of this book?
    http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/animalfarm/

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    Last edited by stalin; 04 May 07, 11:50.

  • #2
    Animal Farm is one of my favourite books. It is a brillant satire and humour is often a highly effective way of debunking the tyrant. George Orwell book is a masterpiece of wit.
    War is less costly than servitude

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    • #3
      Originally posted by kendrick View Post
      ... satire and humour is often a highly effective way of debunking the tyrant...
      satire and humour maybe is ''effective way of debunking the tyrant'',
      but then again - pretty soon, some another ''tyrant'' seizes the power.
      why is it always that way?

      maybe - the totalitarism is not such a thing you can laugh off so easily?

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      • #4
        It takes more than one source to understand any topic. Literature is a valuable tool for a couple reasons.
        • It can invoke an emotional response, which makes it good as propoganda (which I don't mean in it's necessarily pejorative sense).
        • It can allow you to approach and examine a subject from directions that may not be obvious in more formal methods.
        • The work can find a wider audience outside of strictly analytical, academic, or peer groups.
        • It can allow an author to address topics that would effect his market or even get him put in jail if presented in a more formal way.
        And there is probably other stuff too. Animal Farm is a good tool for presenting what George Orwell thinks of Soviet totalitarianism. But it isn't the only tool and it's arguments are specific to a British democratic socialist perspective of the 1940s.
        AHIKS - Play by (E)mail board wargaming since 1965.
        The Blitz - Play by Email computer wargaming.

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        • #5
          Put simply, it's a must have for any student of poli-sci. I have an old copy that my dad had in high school.
          "This life..., you know, "the life." Youíre not gonna get any medals, kid. This is not a hero business; you donít shoot people from a mile a way. You gotta stand right next to them... blow their heads off."

          BoRG

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          • #6
            1) I'd suggest a quick rename of this thread so it's got more of a chance of gathering a following- колхо́з or 'The Farm' might work wonders. The more opinions, the more points of views and eventually perhaps the more votes.

            2) I've got to hand it to Stalin for starting the thread. Thank you. Спасибо.

            3) What device, if not satire, would you (have) use(d)? Tragedy seems too simple.

            4) Clover, Boxer, Benjamin, boys and girls, gather around. Lend me (or us) your ears...
            Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
            (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by General Staff View Post
              ... What device, if not satire, would you (have) use(d)? Tragedy seems too simple...
              philosophy.
              historical analysis.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by stalin View Post
                Philosophy. Historical analysis.
                If we'd posted this in the 30s we'd have had all the time God gave us for both. In a weak and cold and hungry moment, maybe humour too. We need to try again.
                Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
                (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

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                • #9

                  i suggest you, gentlemen, read one of youtube's posts on the subject:
                  ''... snowball was run off of the farm, not only represented Leon Trotsky being exiled from Russia, but it represented Russia's loss of decent and good intentioned leaders.''
                  ??... and - since when leon bronstein a.k.a. trotzki has become a ''decent and good intentioned leader''??
                  i.m.o. - educational videos like that prove that ''brainwashing'' still exists in the west.
                  and, b.t.w., note - how dissmissively the creators of the video mention soviets' victory over nazis (''general winter'' etc.)

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                  Last edited by stalin; 04 May 07, 00:40.

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                  • #10
                    Shhhh, be vewy, vewy quite...I'm hunting commies....

                    "This life..., you know, "the life." Youíre not gonna get any medals, kid. This is not a hero business; you donít shoot people from a mile a way. You gotta stand right next to them... blow their heads off."

                    BoRG

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by stalin View Post

                      i suggest you, gentlemen, read one of youtube's posts on the subject:
                      ''... snowball was run off of the farm, not only represented Leon Trotsky being exiled from Russia, but it represented Russia's loss of decent and good intentioned leaders.''
                      ??... and - since when leon bronstein a.k.a. trotzki has become a ''decent and good intentioned leader''??
                      i.m.o. - educational videos like that prove that ''brainwashing'' still exists in the west.
                      and, b.t.w., note - how dissmissively the creators of the video mention soviets' victory over nazis (''general winter'' etc.)
                      That's an interpretation. Looks like something high-schoolish or university-like to impress the teachers with the use of multimedia hoping for an A grade.

                      Hardly educational, though I did find how Trotsky was airbrushed out of pictures fascinating, and something I hadn't seen so clearly before. Personally, I'd give it a B. Snowball being run off the farm interpreted as Trotsky/well-intentioned leaders (is there such an animal in a totalitarian society?) is well- an interpretation. It could be talking about the Gang of Four in China.

                      Dismissive about the Soviets' victory over the Nazis? What victory? It was a carefully crafted Liberal Democratic plot or counter-revolution to get the totalitarians fighting among themselves and to exhaust themselves against each other- to pave the way for the Cold War and the eventual triumph of the individual over the State. It worked.

                      You really need to read the original. Not picture book high school senior or university undergraduate fantasies.
                      Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
                      (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by P.V. Mann III View Post
                        Shhhh, be vewy, vewy quite...I'm hunting commies....
                        LoL. Yes, it's a fascinating and highly enjoyable sport, though I don't do it for the killing- just putting them out of their misery.

                        My favourite point is when they are cornered in the Orwellian-inspired and 1984-built Ministry of Love and you finally get to ask them how many fingers you're holding up. Then they just- eventually- tell you the truth and get to see the past with their eyes finally opened in all its hideous brutality. And the insanity of it all.
                        Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
                        (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by stalin
                          no it didn't.
                          in terms of ''eventual triumph of the individual over the state'' - it didn't.
                          and, where did you ever see anyone who ''triumphed over the state''?
                          Nelson Mandela for one. I could go on. And if it didn't work, what the hell are you doing here?
                          Last edited by General Staff; 04 May 07, 08:18.
                          Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
                          (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well, personally I love the book, I'm a huge fan of Orwell.

                            On to the more interesting question in my opinion:

                            Satire is an extremely effective means to understand dark topics. As Duncan said, one should always seek multiple sources to find understanding, but satire is an effective one to us.

                            Keep in mind, a satire does not necessarily mean comedy. You're not necessarily understanding the topic by laughing about it, but often times you're simply changing the setting to something unlikely or exaggerating things to great ends to prove the underlying point.

                            Another example of classic and great satire is of course A Modest Proposal by Jonathan Swift.
                            ďTo discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which is one of the foundations of American life.Ē

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by General Staff View Post
                              Nelson Mandela for one. I could go on.
                              nelson mandela was a so-called ''5th column'' stooge. united nation's puppet.
                              so, you better go on...

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