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American Sniper

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  • JBark
    replied
    Originally posted by Naffenea View Post
    Which dictionary is that, because a Soldier is a person who serves in the ARMY, not NAVY.

    I'll tell you what rather than use a dictionary let's go to Chris Kyle himself. He writes: "But I also witnessed the evil my targets committed and wanted to commit, and by killing them, I protected the lives of many fellow soldiers." (p379) That do it for you or do you need more proof?


    Originally posted by Naffenea View Post
    Well then I'm confused. What else is there to kill other than hunting animals, which is acceptable. Or perhaps working in a slaughterhouse, which is acceptable. Surely you don't think he'' turn on his fellow service members and try to kill them?

    I'd say you are confused in a number of ways. I reposted the quote for you and you still don't understand it. "Men like this will come home and seek out the high of combat and killing in some form here stateside."
    Seek the high of combat and killing does not specifically say he will kill anything or anybody. That is why I say "in some form." You are obviously also confused if you think killing of animals is universally acceptable. If I walk outside and shoot my neighbors dog I hope someone will take notice of this as a strange act...and illegal...and report it to the authorities. The killing of game animals is acceptable depending on where you live and the time of year.


    Originally posted by Naffenea View Post
    Of course he is dealing with his deployments and what has happened. All of us that served over there have our issues to deal with. What was the picture I painted again, because all I am seeing is that I am saying he enjoyed his work. You're the one saying he is "going to come home and seek out the high of combat and killing in some form here"
    I am offering an opinion and expressing a concern. Yes, I think he will deal with his experiences, that is exactly my concern. Everything I have read in this book indicates to me that he will seek out repition of the physiological response his body has to being in combat. If he is lucky he will find a way to do this legally and without harm to himself or others. He might go rock climbing, bungee jumping or ride roller coasters. It is my hope that he does not use drugs excessively (he admits to high alcohol use during his enlistment)gamble excessively or do things which are illegal (he mentions a number of arrests during his enlistment for fighting.) Perhaps when you have more life experience you will understand what it is I am talking about.
    I also am expressing a sincere distaste for any soldier that says they have fun killing and love it. I don't often read memoir accounts by soldiers but this is the first time I have ever read of anyone saying that. I find it extremely upsetting. I would have found a different way of expressing this if I were Kyle.

    Thank you for your service to our country. I hope your transition to civilian life was or will be smooth.

    To avoid confusion the page number I cited is from a pre release copy of the book. I was loaned this book by an employee of a bookstore and the book differs from the hardcover copies now on the shelves. There are differences between the content of the pre release copy and the hardcover.

    Leave a comment:


  • Naffenea
    replied
    Originally posted by JBark View Post
    According to the dictionary I checked they are.
    Which dictionary is that, because a Soldier is a person who serves in the ARMY, not NAVY.



    I'm not sure how to respond to this. Are you intentionally trying to misrepresent what I wrote? Silly since anyone reading this thread will simply look up and see what I wrote. Here it is:
    "Men like this will come home and seek out the high of combat and killing in some form here stateside."
    We clearly see that I did not say anything about preying on civilians. Did I?
    Well then I'm confused. What else is there to kill other than hunting animals, which is acceptable. Or perhaps working in a slaughterhouse, which is acceptable. Surely you don't think he'' turn on his fellow service members and try to kill them?

    ... I pointed it out in this case because someone that enjoyed and loved killing, who went to Iraq for four tours and experienced an intense psycho-physiological reaction to leaving combat I think will probably be dealing in some way with his experiences for many years. Hopefully it does not pan out badly, certainly not the picture you painted...who knows?
    Of course he is dealing with his deployments and what has happened. All of us that served over there have our issues to deal with. What was the picture I painted again, because all I am seeing is that I am saying he enjoyed his work. You're the one saying he is "going to come home and seek out the high of combat and killing in some form here"

    Leave a comment:


  • JBark
    replied
    Originally posted by Naffenea View Post
    Sailors aren't soldiers.
    According to the dictionary I checked they are.

    Originally posted by Naffenea View Post
    Perhaps you have some studies or reports that support your claim that service members who found enjoyment in killing came home and continued to prey on civilians?
    I'm not sure how to respond to this. Are you intentionally trying to misrepresent what I wrote? Silly since anyone reading this thread will simply look up and see what I wrote. Here it is:
    "Men like this will come home and seek out the high of combat and killing in some form here stateside."
    We clearly see that I did not say anything about preying on civilians. Did I?

    As for studies you can pick from a host of work done on the effects of combat and other stresses on people to see what researchers have found. All the PTSS stuff is probably very abundant. I've never looked at any myself as it is pretty obvious to me how the human body works and what the result can be to someone experiencing combat or the like. Please note that I emphasized the word "can" and am now pointing it out to you because I want you to understand that there is no guarantee Chris Kyle or anyone else will act in a predictable way. An individuals past and physiology will determine how they react and whether there will be a resulting compulsive/obsessive/addictive lifestyle. I pointed it out in this case because someone that enjoyed and loved killing, who went to Iraq for four tours and experienced an intense psycho-physiological reaction to leaving combat I think will probably be dealing in some way with his experiences for many years. Hopefully it does not pan out badly, certainly not the picture you painted...who knows?

    Leave a comment:


  • Naffenea
    replied
    Hardly. The guy loves his work. Good for him.

    Leave a comment:


  • Frtigern
    replied
    He can snipe me all night in Battlefield 3 but expect me to shoot back. I am alright with soldiers who love the high of combat, the adrenaline, the sound and smell of it, the way time moves in battle, but to hear a sailor say he loves to kill people is disturbing. He may find that he is in the cross-hairs of a SWAT or FBI sniper team.

    Leave a comment:


  • Naffenea
    replied
    Sailors aren't soldiers.

    Perhaps you have some studies or reports that support your claim that service members who found enjoyment in killing came home and continued to prey on civilians?

    Leave a comment:


  • JBark
    replied
    Originally posted by Naffenea View Post
    Just a quibble, he isn't a soldier, he's a sailor.
    I will not quibble either. I have used the word correctly.

    Originally posted by Naffenea View Post
    Sounds like a good book, one I'll probably get. I don't find it upsetting though that he finds his work fun. Keep in mind that the job of the military is to kill people and blow stuff up. The happier you are in your work, the better you are.
    Yes, I remember the job of the military. One can enjoy the training and reaching a level of expertise, enjoy the knowledge that they are extremely well trained and capable, enjoy the comraderie, take pride in serving ones country and (in this case) the support and protection given to other men in the filed. All these things are acceptable to me, enjoying killing, loving it (as he states later in the book) is not healthy. Men like this will come home and seek out the high of combat and killing in some form here stateside. Think about what that means.

    Leave a comment:


  • Naffenea
    replied
    Just a quibble, he isn't a soldier, he's a sailor.

    Sounds like a good book, one I'll probably get. I don't find it upsetting though that he finds his work fun. Keep in mind that the job of the military is to kill people and blow stuff up. The happier you are in your work, the better you are.

    Leave a comment:


  • JBark
    started a topic American Sniper

    American Sniper

    I am currently reading this new release authored by Chris Kyle. Kyle describes his SEAL training briefly as a lead in to his combat. The autobiographical account of the author's service in Iraq is very easy to read, Kyle has a simple tell it like it is manner to his writing. I like it as a change from what I read normally, tank stuff, campaign descriptions, etc. My major objection is that Kyle on more than one occasion describes what he was doing in Iraq as fun. I find it pretty upsetting to read that anyone, SEAL or otherwise, would describe the job of killing in war to be fun. He should take pride in the fact that he is a good soldier, a well trained soldier, a patriot...but I terribly dislike the notion of killing as fun. I think he has some growing up to do.

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