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  • #16
    Originally posted by JBark View Post
    Editors and publishers employ fact checkers before endorsing a book. You, of course are not a fact checker either and have made no attempt to offer any proof of your assertion. Yes, I posted the definition, someone who serves in an army (not capitalized) and I went on to define an army by the same dictionary; "an organized military force equipped for fighting on land." What don't you understand about this? You are wrong. As for being a soldier I didn't know that this gave you training in word definitions and usage. Is your job in the army to write?
    You don't read many military books do you? Also, you seem to not understand that capitalized words are used for emphasis. It doesn't matter that it's all caps, all lower case, or a mix. You still don't get that a sailor, though he may fight on land, is still a sailor, and no matter how much you wish otherwise, still isn't a soldier. What don't YOU understand about this?


    Are you really going to go there? I am not going to get this childish; I will leave that to you. (You might check your own spelling before casting the first stone.)
    You already went there. Please explain how "This time I am going to politely ak if you were injured to the head at any time in your life?" is supposed to be taken?

    Once again I don't know what you are trying to say here. It is a struggle trying to understand you. I don't know why you are trying to argue this point unless you think you have to defend Kyle and other G.I.'s from attack. Do you see this as an attack...is that why you are trying to argue whatever it is you are trying to argue. From what I read I don't think you really know what you are trying to say so please work on it. If you continue along this babbling pointless path I will not waste my time responding.
    That's what I'm trying to figure out, and you keep dancing around. You see, this is a direct statement and accusation."Men like this will come home and seek out the high of combat and killing in some form here stateside." I'm calling you out on this statement because it perpetuates stereotypes and you continue to fail to support this claim.

    I mentioned organized religion because there are many cases where those involved in organized religions, missionaries for example, are sheltered and naive about the realities of the world.
    I'm guessing that you know missionary life as well as you know military life, which is to say not very well.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Naffenea View Post
      You don't read many military books do you? Also, you seem to not understand that capitalized words are used for emphasis. It doesn't matter that it's all caps, all lower case, or a mix. You still don't get that a sailor, though he may fight on land, is still a sailor, and no matter how much you wish otherwise, still isn't a soldier. What don't YOU understand about this?

      I understand completely. I understand that a soldier is someone who fights in the military, or more specifically with an army (wanted to make sure you weren't saying Army as in U.S. Army...since you fall into the habit of misprepresenting everything that has been exchanged here) and an army is an organized military force equipped for fighting on land. So, by definition Kyle is a soldier. Any SEAL, as they are a specialized type of fighter would be trained as a soldier and termed as such by anyone wishing to use english correctly. Additionally Kyle was fighting with Army and Marine units. I also understand that you have nothing to back up your claim of what a soldier is or is not. You have made no attempt to bring a dictionary citing to back up your claim. I understand that you have not because you know you will fail. I further understand that your military service makes you and expert on very little, certainly not the proper use of the english language. I understand that you think if you make the claim over and over again you will think you are right...this couldn't be further from the truth.

      I have in my house 50 to 60 books of military history or science. I've read most of them and many others through the years. I also own a dictionary and know how to use it. I'm also educated and far from stupid. How about you?

      Originally posted by Naffenea View Post
      You already went there. Please explain how "This time I am going to politely ak if you were injured to the head at any time in your life?" is supposed to be taken?
      A number of times during this exchange you have asked me to offer proof of some kind that Kyle would kill people despite the fact that I had made no such claim. I thought your inability to understand this point (made more than once) might be due to some form of mental handicap, perhaps the result of injury. Is it?

      Originally posted by Naffenea View Post
      That's what I'm trying to figure out, and you keep dancing around. You see, this is a direct statement and accusation."Men like this will come home and seek out the high of combat and killing in some form here stateside." I'm calling you out on this statement because it perpetuates stereotypes and you continue to fail to support this claim.

      Well this is the first time you've put it in a reasonably intelligent manner. Earlier you tried to get me to offer proof that he would kill people. You do see the difference, don't you. I don't know how experienced you are at discussion/debate on forums like this but it is a common tactic of some to get their adversary to prove an arguemnt/assertion he never owned. It is also common for some people to say "you said such and such" when their adversary never did. This is what you were doing.

      As for backing up the claim, I already have. Kyle immediately showed the signs of a physilogical problem immediately after leaving combat and was medicated for this. He admits to excessive alcohol abuse and during his years in the service (10) he was arrested more times than I have been in my entire life (0) for drunken brawls. Chemicals are relased in the body with certain activities and when we ingest certain substances. It is common for people to become addicted to a combat high just as they become addicted to heroin, sex, alcohol, gambling and certain foods. Taking one away is often made easier by introducing/increasing one of the others. Smokers that quit might gain weight, go to an AA meeting and watch the consumption of nicotine and caffeine. This should be obvious and one can find much written about it. Do I really need to bring in studies to talk about what happens to G.I.'s returning home and the effects of combat? Do you know nothing of PTSD? Be sure I hope Kyle is able to tone down his lifestyle; his business venture as a sniping instructor may be the outlet he needs to do just that. I really don't think I need to bring studies in to this discussion, anyone with a decent amount of intelligence, insight and experience understands what I am saying. Perhaps as a soldier and vet you are oversensitive to the opinion I am offering but I think as you grow older and mature a bit more you will not over react so much.

      Originally posted by Naffenea View Post
      I'm guessing that you know missionary life as well as you know military life, which is to say not very well.
      Well, you have done nothing to show that my knowledge of military life is insufficient. You pretend to be an expert on word usuage simply because you are a soldier. What you guess is meaningless.
      John

      Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

      Comment


      • #18
        From the BBC today;-

        A young cowboy from Texas who joined the elite US Navy Seals became the most deadly sniper in American history. In a book published this month he provides an unusual insight into the psychology of a soldier who waits, watches and kills.
        Full article here:-http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16544490

        Abu El Banat
        "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

        "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

        Comment


        • #19
          Maybe I am old school (US Navy 1961-1981), but from my experience you do not:
          1. Call a member of the Marine Corps in or out of uniform a solider unless you wanted to start a brawl
          2. Call a member of the Navy or Coast Guard a soldier unless you wanted to start a brawl

          Now I do not have anything against members of the Army and am not attempting to belittle their branch of the military. As far as I am concerned a soldier is a member of the Army.

          If civilians want to call members of the US Armed Forces "soldier" so be it I really don't care, I just consider the source
          Too Much To Do Too Little Time

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by FTCS View Post
            Maybe I am old school (US Navy 1961-1981), but from my experience you do not:
            1. Call a member of the Marine Corps in or out of uniform a solider unless you wanted to start a brawl
            2. Call a member of the Navy or Coast Guard a soldier unless you wanted to start a brawl

            Now I do not have anything against members of the Army and am not attempting to belittle their branch of the military. As far as I am concerned a soldier is a member of the Army.

            If civilians want to call members of the US Armed Forces "soldier" so be it I really don't care, I just consider the source
            Yes but in this case Kyle refers to himself as a soldier and as I pointed out the definition says he is right. Soldiers, sailors and marines have all kinds of talk among themselves I don't pretend to be a part of that and I never will. This is not a military forum so I will feel that civilian dictionaries apply here.

            None of this is what I would prefer this thread to be about so I would really rather discuss the book or Kyle.
            John

            Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

            Comment


            • #21
              This is a military focused forum. Correct nomenclature always applies.

              The book and the tv show the other night about the author were both interesting.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Naffenea View Post
                This is a military focused forum. Correct nomenclature always applies.
                This is a civilian, commercial forum for the discussion of military history. Proper ENGLISH ALWAYS APPLIES. So far you have failed to show any proof of what you assert. Try using your brain and come up with something that corroborates what you say. Please stop sidetracking this thread with a non existant argument.
                John

                Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

                Comment


                • #23
                  I'd keep debating the point with you, but that's pointless. You have had the proof pointed out post after post, yet still refused to accept it.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Have just finished reading the book. It appears that you have a problem with his comment about fun. To tell you the truth I did not see any reference to this, I am not disputing you; it is just that I obviously passed over it without paying any attention to it. Obviously it did not register with me as it obviously did with you. Does this mean I "have some growing up to do"?
                    Too Much To Do Too Little Time

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Naffenea View Post
                      I'd keep debating the point with you, but that's pointless. You have had the proof pointed out post after post, yet still refused to accept it.
                      You're a joke. Typical of the forum flotsam that post with no substance behind what they say. Slink away, it is the only intelligent thing you have done so far.
                      John

                      Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        More personal attacks? Well, I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise. As for the allegation of slinking away, I'm sure you have heard of throwing pearls before swine (though I'm not calling you a swine). You have shown time and again an inability to comprehend what was put before you. So why bother.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by FTCS View Post
                          Have just finished reading the book. It appears that you have a problem with his comment about fun. To tell you the truth I did not see any reference to this, I am not disputing you; it is just that I obviously passed over it without paying any attention to it.
                          Of course you may have missed something or not reacted as I did but there is also the possibility that my copy is different than yours. I read a paperback copy Barnes & Noble received prior to receiving their supply of the hard cover book. I flipped through the for sale copy later and saw it had pictures (my copy did not) so there may be other differences. All readers do react to things differently.

                          Originally posted by FTCS View Post
                          Obviously it did not register with me as it obviously did with you. Does this mean I "have some growing up to do"?
                          I'm not sure why you would ask this. I have an opinion about what I read and about people, it does not have to be the same as yours. Right? As to whether you need to grow up it really does not matter to me if you do or not.

                          Did you enjoy the book? Did you find it insightful? The friend that loaned me the book was intrigued with how SEAL units were attached to marine and army units...they made a hell of a difference.
                          Last edited by JBark; 28 Jan 12, 21:02.
                          John

                          Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by JBark View Post

                            Did you enjoy the book? Did you find it insightful? The friend that loaned me the book was intrigued with how SEAL units were attached to marine and army units...they made a hell of a difference.
                            First, could I suggest that you preview your posts prior to posting them. Obviously you missed adding or deleted the first part of the "Quote" function. The [QUOTE=xxx;xxxx] was missing to enable the normal quote graphics. No big thing, just a very minor thing.

                            Yes, I enjoyed the book. Did I find it insightful? I already knew about the inter-service cooperation. Also I am quite familiar with the CYA policy of some senior officers within the military and almost 100% of politicians. The US military has been hamstrung by civilian interference in the military's function during countless operations. The most blatant abuse was during Viet Nam, I am not a bit surprised by the continuing policy in Iraq and presently in Afghanistan . Although probably not as bad as Viet Nam. When we send our men and women into a combat situation we should not hamstring them with "be nice" rules. Yes, there have been and will continue to be situations that have escalated into, how should I say....excessive actions.
                            Back to your issue with the word "FUN"..... As far as I am concerned, if that is what it takes to remove a**holes ....so be it.
                            Too Much To Do Too Little Time

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Last night on NPR a gay sailor was referred to as a "soldier".... very far from it.
                              My worst jump story:
                              My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                              As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                              No lie.

                              ~
                              "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                              -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by FTCS View Post
                                First, could I suggest that you preview your posts prior to posting them. Obviously you missed adding or deleted the first part of the "Quote" function. The QUOTE was missing to enable the normal quote graphics. No big thing, just a very minor thing.
                                I fixed it for you...I don't want you losing sleep over these very minor mistakes of mine.

                                I don't often read first person memoirs and have not read anything current in a long time so I found it interesting to read his descriptions of the combat in Iraq and how things were going over there. CYA happens everywhere, right? Too bad when it effects guys in uniform in harm's way.

                                Originally posted by FTCS View Post
                                Back to your issue with the word "FUN"..... As far as I am concerned, if that is what it takes to remove a**holes ....so be it.
                                I don't see it as "what it takes." I'm hoping most of our guys don't see it as "having fun" and "loving" killing the enemy. War is a sh*tty deal but loving the killing just doesn't sit well with me.
                                Last edited by JBark; 29 Jan 12, 15:59.
                                John

                                Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

                                Comment

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