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  • Looking for something more

    I have found myself of late rather disenchanted with the bulk of the games that I play these days, and this is normally because of their omission of a number of (in my opinion) key areas. Basically, I am looking for a game that will cover an operational sort of level, so I can play with troops to some extent (e.g. at a company/battalion level), but then also move towards a wider viewpoint (up to corps/army group). The key thing that I was wondering if any games contained were approaches to the uses of not combatant units, e.g. logistical units, communications, medical facilities (and more than just a medic character on the battlefield), traffic control, engineers, etc. These are particularly what I'm after as I often feel that things go way too smoothly with those games where they are not modelled. Any help?

  • #2
    The first part of your posts suggests you might want to look into TOAW3 from over at Matrix Games. It's operational, and requires you to attend to the minor details beyond just killing enemy units.

    The second part of your post though, where you mention individuals is so totally a tactical game in real time 3d that has nothing in common with operational anything.

    So I guess the best idea is for you to list the last 10 games you thought were ok till you got bored. It will make it plain what you liked initially, and what sort of gamer you are normally.

    Otherwise our suggestions will be pointless mostly.
    Life is change. Built models for decades.
    Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
    I didn't for a long time either.

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    • #3
      Thanks for the prompt reply. In that second part of the post i was trying to say that I wanted something beyond just a character on a 3d real time game for such non combatant units (as you find in games like sudden strike, for example). I was wondering if, using the logistical units as the example, it was possible to sort out the location of dumps, their supply, the supply of units from further on. By this last I mean that your troops will run out of ammunition, but also of petrol, and other necessaries. That you can schedule/tell units where to go for resupply and when. I apologise if I still have confused you as to what i seek. Essentially as you made mention of with TOAW3, I want to go beyond the "mere" killing of enemy units, and go into the most minor of details beyond.

      With this TOAW3, I could just click on to matrix games' website, but then that would only tell me the "selling points" from matrix, so was wondering if anyone could either explain what the game entails, or if anyone knows of any sites/forums where I could find out more?

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      • #4
        The Operational Art of War III
        Stay Alert, Stay Alive!

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        • #5
          TOAW 3 best explained, is it is every board game an old grognard wargamer ever owned from back in the 70s and 80s.

          It's hex based turn using board gaming wargaming looking operational warfare from WW2 to modern, and who knows what else as the game is mod friendly.
          Comes with a bajliion games as it goes.

          It's a fairly serious wargamers wargame though. The other end of the scale of realism from something like Company of Heroes (which while fun, is not at all the same experience).

          I personally think you may want to seriously coinsider looking into Civilization IV, because believe it or not, with the two expansions, and some good user created settings, you can end up with a really in depth experience. You get all the warfare, but you also get all the inner workings of running a war machine too.
          But it's still Civ of course, and some just don't think Civ can ever be called a real wargame.

          I can't at this time, claim to know of any wargames, that get to nitpicky about all the details, without becoming a detail nightmare.
          But hey, if you are really serious about nuts and bolts, you might want to look into either Uncommon Valour (a smaller slice of the war) or the whole deal experience of War in the Pacific (Matrix Games).
          Warning, this game is NOT a beginners game, or even a moderate game. This is what the truly detail obsessed play these days.
          Life is change. Built models for decades.
          Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
          I didn't for a long time either.

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          • #6
            Depending on your play style, TOAW III can be extremely detail oriented. Yes, it actually does have MPs that will help with traffic control, although most people can ignore that level of detail. If you're playing PBEM against a very tough opponent in some sceanrios you may get an edge by knowing that.

            You can take a look at the Vietnam Campaign series posted about here as an example of what can be done with TOAW.

            Civ IV is also an excellent game, although I was very disappointed by the second expansion pack, the mechanics of tracking the spies and making them do things wasn't something I enjoyed.

            Ralph

            --
            Ralph Trickey
            TOAW III Programmer
            Unless specifically stated otherwise, my comments are my own, and do not represent the views of any other person or entity. Nothing that I say should be construed in any way as a promise of anything.

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            • #7
              Uncommon Valour also it a terrific wargame!

              Land, sea and air warfare in the South Pacific May 1942 - Dec 43

              You need to get fuel and other supplies to all areas to supply your'e troops to take thew war to the enemy.

              It gives a great feel to the logistics problems faced by Macarthur in those times.

              -

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              • #8
                wwagsty,
                Don't know if you are looking specifically at WW2/Modern games or not, but if you are willing to try Napoleonic/American Civil War I would highly recommend AGEOD's games.
                They cover the operational and strategic level.
                Combat support units are very important to the game.
                Specifically speaking of the ACW game, building, maintaining and defending supply lines, units and depots is very important.
                It is almost a sub-game in itself.

                Other combat support units like engineer, bridging, signal and medical units also play key roles.
                While you don't necessarily move individual units and build bridges, etc, these type of units provide movement, communication, morale, etc bonuses to Corps and Divisions they are stacked with.

                AGEOD Mainpage
                http://www.ageod.com/index-en.html
                Forum
                http://www.ageod.com/forums/

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                • #9
                  TOAW III would also be my advice, but if you want to get sick with micromanagement, then War in the Pacific is the ultimate wargame (a new 'improved' version is in the making from what I understand).

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                  • #10
                    Ok, thanks guys. Seeing as have heard of TOAW3 previously have gone with that for a new challenge. Seems like an interesting game so far. Thanks for all the posts, and will keep some of the others in mind for possible future acquisitions.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wwagstyl View Post
                      Ok, thanks guys. Seeing as have heard of TOAW3 previously have gone with that for a new challenge. Seems like an interesting game so far. Thanks for all the posts, and will keep some of the others in mind for possible future acquisitions.
                      Thanks! I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Don't forget to get the latest patch, and make sure to drop by the forums and say 'Hi'.
                      Unless specifically stated otherwise, my comments are my own, and do not represent the views of any other person or entity. Nothing that I say should be construed in any way as a promise of anything.

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