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  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    Originally posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
    Sadly I know zilch about ships of the 1900-25 era (sniffle)
    Neither did I.

    You learn fast in RtW. One big surface engagement will quickly teach you why more ammo is better.

    Plus the design software won't let you build engineeringly unsound vessels, and will alert you to details like forgetting ammo storage or the latest target directors.

    It's pretty simple in terms of learning curve, but it is addictive once you get situated. The AI is tough but fair.

    Craven plays better than I do; he has won as Japan, which is probably the most demanding nation to play.

    Leave a comment:


  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    Originally posted by Herman Hum View Post
    You probably know more about 1900-25 era warships than the MNO developers know about modern aircraft.

    The Steam and Iron databases are completely open and you can modify them to your heart's content. Of course, I am sure that you would not be stupid enough to make all the units move at the same speed.

    Personally, I am not a fan of Rule the Waves. In RtW, IMO, the player is in the role of the Minister of War. I prefer Steam and Iron, where the player is in the role of First Sea Lord. In other words, you primarily command the ships and fight the battles in SaI. RtW focuses a great deal more on production, diplomacy, and research.



    Even better, there is a FREE demo available, so that you decide for yourself if the game is good or not. No need to waste money on a turkey like MNO to find out the truth.

    http://www.navalwarfare.net/files/SAI/NWS_SAI_DEMO.zip
    Heretic! Burn him!

    Actually, in RtW you are both. The difference is that you design the ships you command; otherwise they use identical engines.

    It is amazing to design your ships, lead them into battle, and discover that your planning was desperately flawed.

    As it was with my CL-borne torpedo volley approach.

    On the other hand, seeing your designs whip [email protected]@ is hard to top.

    Leave a comment:


  • Herman Hum
    replied
    Originally posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
    Sadly I know zilch about ships of the 1900-25 era (sniffle)
    You probably know more about 1900-25 era warships than the MNO developers know about modern aircraft.

    The Steam and Iron databases are completely open and you can modify them to your heart's content. Of course, I am sure that you would not be stupid enough to make all the units move at the same speed.

    Personally, I am not a fan of Rule the Waves. In RtW, IMO, the player is in the role of the Minister of War. I prefer Steam and Iron, where the player is in the role of First Sea Lord. In other words, you primarily command the ships and fight the battles in SaI. RtW focuses a great deal more on production, diplomacy, and research.



    Even better, there is a FREE demo available, so that you decide for yourself if the game is good or not. No need to waste money on a turkey like MNO to find out the truth.

    http://www.navalwarfare.net/files/SAI/NWS_SAI_DEMO.zip

    Leave a comment:


  • Poor Old Spike
    replied
    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    You must try Rule the Waves.
    Join us. You will be assimilated...
    http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.ya...t/ruwaddo.html
    Sadly I know zilch about ships of the 1900-25 era (sniffle)

    Leave a comment:


  • Poor Old Spike
    replied
    Originally posted by strykerpsg View Post
    Naval Warfare Simulations is the main website that hosted the initial Naval Warfare Project for Jane's Fleet Command...however, given your own admission to being computer tech ignorant, you may be challenged in getting it to install properly..
    Ah, that NWS/NWP!
    Yes I looked at their site a while back and read up on the Fleet Command mod but decided to give it a miss because it looked too complicated to install and run for me, I'm just a wargame-trophy-winning neanderthal, not a computer geek..

    Leave a comment:


  • Herman Hum
    replied
    The learning curve is not the worst part of the game, the horrible user interface is.

    While recording [MNO] Northern Inferno: FailSafe, anything to break the monotony would have been welcome. I was falling asleep at the keyboard with boredom. After torturing myself for over four hours with MNO, I was just hoping for anything to end the ordeal. The player who described MNO as 'extreme tedium' was probably the most concise and accurate description I have yet seen.

    Leave a comment:


  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    Originally posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
    What's NWS? It seems everybody is talking in abbreviations nowadays..
    When I was a boardgame nut 40 years ago I tried to imagine what it'd be like to be in the middle of 3D land/sea/air battles, then when home computing exploded onto the scene in the early 80's we were at last able to get in there among the thick of the 3D action..
    Sure, games like Harpoon and CMANO are fine up to a point, but the fact remains they can only be played on a flat 2D monitor screen like boardgames and therefore don't have the grabbing power of 3D gaming.
    You must try Rule the Waves.

    Join us. You will be assimilated...

    http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.ya...t/ruwaddo.html

    Leave a comment:


  • strykerpsg
    replied
    Originally posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
    What's NWS? It seems everybody is talking in abbreviations nowadays..
    When I was a boardgame nut 40 years ago I tried to imagine what it'd be like to be in the middle of 3D land/sea/air battles, then when home computing exploded onto the scene in the early 80's we were at last able to get in there among the thick of the 3D action..
    Sure, games like Harpoon and CMANO are fine up to a point, but the fact remains they can only be played on a flat 2D monitor screen like boardgames and therefore don't have the grabbing power of 3D gaming.
    Naval Warfare Simulations is the main website that hosted the initial Naval Warfare Project for Jane's Fleet Command. NWS has since morphed into a gaming design studio and seems to have gone away from NWP, or at least I am not finding any references to NWP any longer on their main page.

    There are several forums that still discuss and mod Jane's, however, given your own admission to being computer tech ignorant, you may be challenged in getting it to install properly, if you are not patient enough to read through the various forum threads on how to install it. However, should you endure the reading and patience to experiment, you may be justly rewarded with your cheesy graphics, though a bit dated. It's really not very difficult at all. I just grew tired of too many database experts, injecting their "updated and most accurate" that kept corrupting the initial base and causing too many errors.

    Leave a comment:


  • Poor Old Spike
    replied
    Originally posted by strykerpsg View Post
    CMANO...Graphically, there's not much graphically, as your depiction is one of someone in a command and control environment, being feed real time data updates, not seeing cheesy 3D models being destroyed or launching items. If 3D is what you need, then I highly recommend NWS and it's dated, but cheesy capable graphics.
    What's NWS? It seems everybody is talking in abbreviations nowadays..
    When I was a boardgame nut 40 years ago I tried to imagine what it'd be like to be in the middle of 3D land/sea/air battles, then when home computing exploded onto the scene in the early 80's we were at last able to get in there among the thick of the 3D action..
    Sure, games like Harpoon and CMANO are fine up to a point, but the fact remains they can only be played on a flat 2D monitor screen like boardgames and therefore don't have the grabbing power of 3D gaming.

    Leave a comment:


  • strykerpsg
    replied
    Deltapooh, while there is a bit of a steep learning curve if you've never dabbled in the Harpoon PC series titles or have a basic understanding of current naval and air strategies, I would say it's not overly difficult to get into. With the advent of great vloggers such as Baloogan and Kushan, they walk one through quite easily and with basic to modest scenarios. Covering all aspects of Air, Surface and Sub Surface warfare, you will be able to feel much less overwhelmed and have a greater understanding of what each platform is capable of.

    Additionally, as Sunburn mentioned, there's a huge player based community with hundreds of scenarios ranging from basics to advanced scenarios that encompass a global conflict.

    As someone that enjoyed Harpoon in it's younger days of inception, walking into CMANO was not as difficult as it seems, but I also grew up with a thirst for all things military and loved the concepts of 20th and 21st Century naval conflict. I also understood what EMCON and such meant, long before entering into CMANO. As POS pointed out above, perhaps the best way to understand and appreciate the genre much easier, is to utilize the editor while playing. You can then play or view either side, give or cancel orders or just watch and see what happens. Caveat however, the editor is only accessible in the full version of the game, not the DLC.

    Also, as mentioned by Sunburn, the DLC are indeed stand alone products at a much cheaper entry fare than the base game. With Christmas forthcoming, I feel confident you will be able to also get a great deal on the base game and the DLC.

    Ultimately, to get the best help, you will need to read through the dozens of threads at the Matrix games site. There you will see the challenges and courses of actions others have used in obtaining victory. Its also a good place to stay current with updates and changes.

    As far as ground combat, there is not much to really comment on except to state the obvious in the name of the title: Command Modern Air & Naval Operations. Ground targets are there only in nature to support Air, Naval Surface and/or Naval Sub surface assets. There are others that would like to see that aspect added too, but that's another discussion entirely.

    Graphically, there's not much graphically, as your depiction is one of someone in a command and control environment, being feed real time data updates, not seeing cheesy 3D models being destroyed or launching items. If 3D is what you need, then I highly recommend NWS and it's dated, but cheesy capable graphics.

    Leave a comment:


  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    The learning cure is what has held me off so far. I played earlier Harpoon games, but the complexity tended to overwhelm my computer and me.

    For now I'm sticking with Stream & Iron and Rule the Waves.

    Leave a comment:


  • Poor Old Spike
    replied
    I own CMANO but it doesn't have 3D animations so I'm therefore only lukewarm towards it.
    My favourite naval game is the low-complexity dear old Fleet Command because I'm hooked on its exciting 3D animations of ships/planes/helos firing their guns and missiles.
    CMANO is highly-complex and realistic (up to a point), but as Herman said you have to micro-manage your units a lot of the time, so playing the big scenarios can be a nightmare.
    My advice is therefore to dive into the CMANO editor as soon as possible to create your own small scens containing just a few easily-manageable units..
    PS- as an alternative to CMANO, there's Harpoon3 which is slightly less complex, but it doesn't have 3D animations either.

    Leave a comment:


  • Deltapooh
    replied
    Thanks I'll research the links.

    Leave a comment:


  • Herman Hum
    replied
    Originally posted by Deltapooh View Post
    can it function like the click and play of Fleet Command?
    No, this game is micro-management hell. The AI is as dumb as a sack of hammers. If you cede control to it, expect to be defeated in detail.

    Originally posted by Deltapooh View Post
    Also does the Chain of Command bring in things like ground forces (armored and infantry formations) kind of like Decisive Action?
    Ground forces in MNO are pretty much just targets. There is very little interaction or combat ability with/between them. They are primarily there to be bombed. Ground units will do all manner of silly things like drive over oceans, up and down mountains, etc.

    Originally posted by Deltapooh View Post
    I found a wealth of information about the game
    Probably the most incisive video about this game is here:

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunburn
    replied
    Originally posted by Deltapooh View Post
    I have this game, but know how to get into it. I know it's more geared toward Harpoon, but can it function like the click and play of Fleet Command? Also does the Chain of Command bring in things like ground forces (armored and infantry formations) kind of like Decisive Action?

    I found a wealth of information about the game, but the tutorials, particularly when it comes to the scenario editor are lacking. I really would like to edit some of the existing missions with modern assets. For example: changing out the air wing in the first tutorial to a modern one.
    Hello,

    If you are familiar with older titles like Harpoon and Fleet Command, CMANO's user interface should feel quite familiar. Have a look at Baloogan's UI tutorial videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...JgEy0WR4rzt6tA

    On ground forces. There are a lot of ground units included, see an example list: http://cmano-db.com/facility/
    However, the emphasis on ground units is more on their interaction with air/naval/strategic forces (e.g. radar post detecting aircraft, coastal missile battery shooting at ships, missile silo launching an ICBM etc.) rather than the more conventional "infantry & armor squads slugging it out" fare of land-centric titles.

    Here's a summary of the strengths and limitations of land combat in CMANO: http://www.warfaresims.com/?page_id=2920#411

    The "Chains Of War" DLC does not add ground forces specifically, but enables a host of additional features that bring even more depth to the sim. See here:
    http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=4454
    http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=4469
    http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=4479
    http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=4494

    Some sample resources on scenario editing, there are many others out there too:
    http://www.warfaresims.com/?page_id=2709
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...jdc9hLPS8UvSHO
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...7j9KESGdWJjab3
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...8EVWB_DearEPI1
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92dkBwVDX4Y
    https://coilerscreativecorner.wordpr...uction-part-1/
    https://coilerscreativecorner.wordpr...uction-part-2/

    Be sure to visit the MG forum for help and support, there is a vibrant community that can help you on your first steps both as a player and as a scenario creator.

    Cheers.

    Leave a comment:

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