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ACG Article: BF2142: 150 Years of Battlefield Lessons?

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  • ACG Article: BF2142: 150 Years of Battlefield Lessons?

    Armchair General presents a new series of articles featuring StrategyMan and FanBoy - who have an eternal struggle over whether games should be realistic or fun. In this episode, we find our two heroes sparring over Battlefield 2142.

    FanBoy enjoys Battlefield 2142 immensely, and is quite willing to overlook some of its flaws because he loves to have fun. StrategyMan insists that a game should first and foremost be a believable environment – with the entertainment value flowing from that realism. Together, these two men enter the arena of 2142 to fight together (and sometimes with each other) as they explore this new game.
    Link

    Our forefathers died to give us freedom, not free stuff.

    I write books about zombies as E.E. Isherwood. Check me out at ZombieBooks.net.

  • #2
    that was good stuff. and from what i played in the beta, i totally agree with strategy man, actually everything he was saying is exactly what i felt when playing the demo. but i still have a feeling i'm going to have to upgrade to BF2142 eventually.

    Comment


    • #3
      No! FanBoy is right! He's also a close personal friend of mine.

      Dr. S.
      Imagine a ball of iron, the size of the sun. And once a year a tiny sparrow brushes its surface with the tip of its wing. And when that ball of iron, the size of the sun, is worn away to nothing, your punishment will barely have begun.

      www.sinisterincorporated.co.uk

      www.tabletown.co.uk

      Comment


      • #4
        No, StrategyMan has the answers you are seeking!
        Our forefathers died to give us freedom, not free stuff.

        I write books about zombies as E.E. Isherwood. Check me out at ZombieBooks.net.

        Comment


        • #5
          It depends. What do you have fun out of? Something more like a simulation or something that is not?

          Sometimes a fantasy simulation is what is best. In Call of Duty 2, I mainly liked the games multiplayer mod, Zombie mod. I was ready to make a big thread about how great it is, if only I could describe it with mere words. I like it for the fun simulation of being in a WWII combat zone, only theres some crazy zombie break out and we are all trying to survive. Forming little groups of people to go on the offense and try and hunt and surpress the zombies. Or caring for or own skin as we push people out of the way to climb up a ladder to a safe spot. Its fun game play and a fun simulation of knowing the world is being turned upside down with zombies.

          Sometimes I think more realistic like strategy man, but in the end all lean towards fanboy. Thats because people like SM seem to always be angry and complaining about things. Thats how they were in Axis and Allies miniatures. AAM is a World War II miniatures game with some real ill-historical concepts and makes perfect way for power gamers, power creep, and other bad things in miniature games. The SMs of that game had constant bitchin to no end. I didnt whine or anything. Yet after a while I just gave up on that game, while other SMs of the game seemd to keep whineing and slaveing over new ideas to make the game historical.

          Yet some ideas that SM has thought of like what will a laser shot gun do, are things I like to think of answers for.

          I came across a good answer when watching Star Wars EIII with some family. They laughed a bit how the star ships had to float slowly right past each other, in front of each other, to fire off their cannons. Like old style boats with cannons are often seen in movies and stuff about that age. Yet they may have the technology to get big laser cannons and vessels to go through space. Yet its an entire different story and problem to get them to be lauched super far through space.

          Now you have your laser assault rifle. They may have figured out how to get lasers (or whatever super cool bullet thing they are shooting out) yet its an entire different problem to figure out how to not let your gun kick back. Something about having lasers or super bullets in it just seems to have it have a lot of kickback.

          Also by games doing that the playablity is better, and when people figure this stuff out like I have they notice how cool it is. Everything may be super good, but basic concepts and problems still are there. Just as old tactics and basic ideas of flanking and surprise can still be used today, the same problems of gun kick back are still there with lasers. Once you perfect the gun kick back in laser assault rifles, then you probably have a better thing to shoot out of your gun that causes more kickback. So your new anti kick back technology doesnt fix the problem but keep it at the same rate.

          Kind of saying 3 problems with kickback.

          1. So much kick back that the gun must be fired in short bursts or your accuracy will be nothing at all.
          2. Theres mild kickback that makes controling the gun a bit hard.
          3. Almost no kickback at all, it shoots very smoothly.

          Now Im going to rate ammo or whatever the hell it is.

          1. Crap bullets that dont require much force to be shot out of the gun.
          2. Good bullets taht require a good amount of force to get shot out.
          3. Crazy good laser bullets or grenade things that take even more amount of force to shoot out.

          With more force comes more kickback. Weapons of hte future have an ammo rating of 3. Yet it has a lot of kickback so its kickback should be a 1. Yet since they are still pretty damn advanced they can fix it so its at a 2. They are not smart enough to fix the problem at all. By the time they are smart enough to fix the problem completely then they will have a better bullet that will be ranked a 4, so the kickback will be like a -1. Yet with the old technology and the new technology they will simply level it out again to be a 2.

          I really hope that made sense. If anyone sees some major flaw that makes this post look idiotic then keep in mind. I have no clue what is being shot out of guns in 2142. I dont know the first thing on how guns work. Also keep in mind the knowledge and workings of a 14 year old are at work here!

          In the end I think that who is better comes down to what are you looking for out of a game personally. I feel it can vary around too. Also if you are a SM and find something wrong, think of a cimplicated and (hopfully) logical explanation for it!
          yeah!

          Comment


          • #6
            I stopped reading your post at zombie mod. I think I need to go pick up CoD 2 for that now....
            “To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which is one of the foundations of American life.”

            Comment


            • #7
              WEll, I recognise my self in both SM and FB.

              I keep enjoying BF2142 though, I think I vote Fanboy.

              Moreover, Strategyman missed the whole engineer with use AT Gun thing, and the starting weapon being actually better than half of the unlocks...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sand View Post
                WEll, I recognise my self in both SM and FB.

                I keep enjoying BF2142 though, I think I vote Fanboy.

                Moreover, Strategyman missed the whole engineer with use AT Gun thing, and the starting weapon being actually better than half of the unlocks...
                Yeah! FanBoy wins!

                Dr. S.
                Imagine a ball of iron, the size of the sun. And once a year a tiny sparrow brushes its surface with the tip of its wing. And when that ball of iron, the size of the sun, is worn away to nothing, your punishment will barely have begun.

                www.sinisterincorporated.co.uk

                www.tabletown.co.uk

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sand View Post

                  Moreover, Strategyman missed the whole engineer with use AT Gun thing, and the starting weapon being actually better than half of the unlocks...
                  I heard from SM that he doesn't like to play as an engineer, which is why he didn't mention it. He plays primarily as Assault class in 2142, which in his humble view, is an emasculated version of the BF2 class of the same name.

                  He also said to tell FanBoy he will see him out on the field of battle in the next game - which HE will choose this time.

                  In unrelated gameplay, speaking as myself, I think one of the things I dislike about 2142 is that it feels more cartoony than BF2. I played BF2 for several hours last night, and it is hard to explain exactly, but the world just felt more "discrete." When sitting in a HUMVEE and shooting the .50 cal - you can track the bullets, you can see the enemy clearly, and there is a brightness to the world which is lacking in 2142. I feel the same way with hand weapons. Maybe the world is just darker in 2142, which doesn't suit my gameplay very well. I do have an older video card as well, which may be part of the problem.
                  Our forefathers died to give us freedom, not free stuff.

                  I write books about zombies as E.E. Isherwood. Check me out at ZombieBooks.net.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Siberian HEAT View Post
                    I heard from SM that he doesn't like to play as an engineer, which is why he didn't mention it. He plays primarily as Assault class in 2142, which in his humble view, is an emasculated version of the BF2 class of the same name.

                    He also said to tell FanBoy he will see him out on the field of battle in the next game - which HE will choose this time.
                    FanBoy, erm, asked me to get you to, erm, ask StrategyMan that he'll settle this wherever necessary.

                    Dr. S.
                    Imagine a ball of iron, the size of the sun. And once a year a tiny sparrow brushes its surface with the tip of its wing. And when that ball of iron, the size of the sun, is worn away to nothing, your punishment will barely have begun.

                    www.sinisterincorporated.co.uk

                    www.tabletown.co.uk

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Stategy

                      I agree with strategyman.
                      If I wanted a cartoony BF2, i'd buy BF2, not a spoofed up BF2.
                      If you've read David Drake's Hammers Slammers, you know about the hover tanks. They have, rotating turrents, auto-firing AA guns, and can go over crates and boxes.
                      Walkers with electric field, brilliant idea!
                      Kickback, I feel, can be eliminated.
                      Its the future, and all there is, WAR. Why make these weapondry some 150+ years old.
                      For despite the silly sayings about violence never settling anything, history IS changed on the battlefield: ask the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
                      -Jerry Pournelle-
                      Introduction to 'Hammer's Slammers'

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have to say, I have much much more success with BF2142 weapons than I do BF2..


                        There's a definite difference in the assault class' guns. For some reason I actually feel like I know better where the 2142 bullets are going than the BF2 bullets that I have always felt disappeared into the astral plane.

                        As for heavy machine guns and such, yeah BF2 definitely wins. Much more satisfying unloading with the humvee's gun than anything in 2142.
                        “To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which is one of the foundations of American life.”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Overseer View Post
                          I have to say, I have much much more success with BF2142 weapons than I do BF2..


                          There's a definite difference in the assault class' guns. For some reason I actually feel like I know better where the 2142 bullets are going than the BF2 bullets that I have always felt disappeared into the astral plane.

                          As for heavy machine guns and such, yeah BF2 definitely wins. Much more satisfying unloading with the humvee's gun than anything in 2142.
                          All in all, one more for FanBoy I think.

                          Dr. S.
                          Imagine a ball of iron, the size of the sun. And once a year a tiny sparrow brushes its surface with the tip of its wing. And when that ball of iron, the size of the sun, is worn away to nothing, your punishment will barely have begun.

                          www.sinisterincorporated.co.uk

                          www.tabletown.co.uk

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Overseer View Post
                            I stopped reading your post at zombie mod. I think I need to go pick up CoD 2 for that now....
                            Good choice.

                            I feel bad. I would never read a post as big as the one I did. I woud porbably stop half way into the CoD 2 Zombie part.

                            I think FB is overall right in this situation.
                            yeah!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ar

                              Having now purchased the game Im changing my vote to Fanboy. Recoil wasn;t that bad (maybe I'm just good with teh support gun) and Fanboy now makes more sense.
                              For despite the silly sayings about violence never settling anything, history IS changed on the battlefield: ask the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
                              -Jerry Pournelle-
                              Introduction to 'Hammer's Slammers'

                              Comment

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