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Fed up Fed up Fed up with AI remarks in gaming appraisals

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  • #16
    An interesting post, but I am not planning to recant my thoughts.

    The AI in wargames has become a crutch a means to duck out of even trying to find a breathing adversary, something that is no longer required and too many have simply given in and stomped trying.

    I have a buddy, he's single, he laments being single.
    But he refuses to actually do anything about it.
    He stays cooped up in his home, his room and he settles for dating his hand.
    Sure, the human body more or less gets some small joy out of masturbation, but it isn't sex.

    And all he really needs to do, is stop coming up for reasons to go out and actually date a woman. All he needs to do is stop coming up with excuses. Oh I don't look good enough, oh I'm too shy, oh I don't have a decent job.

    Just excuses.

    And that's all an AI is, a lousy excuse for not needing to find an actual human opponent.

    Yeah an AI can be handy. Yeah your right hand can be handy too.

    Yeah your life, location, marital status, kids, health can all generate barriers. And you can be beaten by those barriers, or not. You get to decide.
    I am disabled, I'm not dead though. I live in a small town, I can always play a board game with VASSAL. I'm married, I'm not her slave though. I have a son, but it's not like my kid needs me all day. And at 15 my son would loathe me being in his face all damn day.

    If AIs were at least any good, they might be a viable choice.
    The thing is, the average AI is no better than a moron, and the only way they are a challenge, is when you attempt a game needlessly complicated to such a point that you are trying to control so much micromanagement, that your organic mind is simply unable to compete with a calculator without it being difficult.
    Then the AI commits a gross error in common basic logic, and the game is thrown in a way even an idiot human wouldn't accomplish and all your effort is thrown away in yet another win versus the moron AI.

    That's not winning.

    It's true, most of the people I know, likely wouldn't be much of a challenge to me in a game of ASL. Most of my friends though are not wargamers. Doesn't make me better than them, it means I possess a skill set they don't have.
    Put me on a sport field, and my ASL skills are worthless.
    You'd need to actually explain to me how to play a game of football. Yes it's true, I don't know the difference between Rugger and NFL. I just know they are not the same.

    Now as for a person that through physical adversity of accident of chance has been rendered handicapped in such a way that playing a game against other than a machine is not possible. Yes, life is a cruel bitch some days.

    And that is a dumb justification for AI design all the same.
    AI design was never meant to allow the handicapped to play wargames.

    As for the plain under powered mentally, I think it is possible they would fail to care, due a total lack of interest. And providing them an AI that is even less capable, is not going to magically make them interested.

    Were not talking about the Special Olympics here as a means to allow those that can't perform, an outlet.

    The average complainer, complaining they need an AI, IS a loner loser that has given in. I know, I've been listening to them for 10 years now.

    My brother spent many afternoons playing football solo as a kid. It was amusing, to watch. He'd 'throw' the ball, run like hell and try to catch it, turn around and then run like hell against himself trying to score the touch down. All he had was the side portion of the property to work with.
    He was really just having some fun solo because there were no kids available at that specific time.

    Now, it would be crazy to assume he would actually prefer doing that, routinely, a lot, with no interest in finding other kids. But some afternoons you just had no one available. And he didn't like doing anything other than sports.
    It was a choice he made.
    Life is change. Built models for decades.
    Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
    I didn't for a long time either.

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    • #17
      Well Les, banned still?

      Anyways, how am I to play Hearts of Iron 2, or Victoria, multiplayer when I at the moment only have internet connection at work? Furthermore, do you take into account the fact that when I play against AI, I can play when I want to play...instead of devoting a whole day once a week to set up with people to play?

      And then again, why would I be a loser if I want to play against AI? And why is that worse than playing 'solo'?

      Do you think I am looking some kind of ultimate challenge which only humans can produce? Did you consider that perhaps I am just looking for some sort of entertainment? What next, will you complain that Hollywood movies are not historical documentaries? That only losers dine at restaurants? Only morons settle for first person shooters when they could have it all at the army?
      Wisdom is personal

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      • #18
        Looks like the totally fed up person got totally banned haha.

        At any rate since 1981 or 82 I've been a computer wargamer. I turned my back on cardboard counters and boardgames and never looked back and I'm so glad I did and had the opportunity to.

        Back in the beginning it wasn't about flair and fluff it was about delivering a good quality game of challenge and fun. I lived in SSI's catalog, Microprose and any others that offered up turn based wargaming and eventually fantasty wargaming and rpging.

        If it weren't for the ai's in them I'd be a couch potato probably still watching reruns of Gilligans Island and bored out of my mind. AI's in those games were good they weren't crappy like they are today and just thrown into games as an afterthought or at the end of the cycle.

        People that complain about why people ask if the ai in pc games is any good shouldn't be playing computer games. They should go back to their boring boardgames and remain there.
        Many wargamers and gamers came to the computer because of the AI and what it could offer. It offered a challenging and fun opponent for many years a couple of decades in fact. But, something happened around 1998 when Win95/98 came about and then games became retarded with retarded ai's.

        They started releasing them with more and more bugs until we are at the point now you'll not see a game released that isn't full of bugs and requires a years worth of patching. And the consumers flock to them like idiots paying out good money for a game that doesn't work or you can't complete (HOI III).

        I'll always be a solo gamer for the most part. I don't care about socializing all I want to do is play a game and enjoy it vs a quality AI. There are some games out there that are great and have great challenge. Galactic Civ II in fact is one of them. The Entire Civilization series is another. Also there are plenty of old DOS games with excellent Ai's and challenge to go back to thanks to DOSBOX.

        I like a good ai I will continue to always ask how is the ai in any game I have my sights on purchasing. If several people say it's crap I ain't buyin it.

        Also to say the human opponent is a better player is rediculous as well. I've played human opponents that were WORSE than the games AI itself. lol You have to find good human opponents just like you have to find good games with good ai's.

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