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  • Is gaming dead, dying, or just done?

    I have been pondering this question due to recent personal activities.

    I'm a veteran board gamer. It was my generation that made role gaming happen. It is my generation that took board gaming into the realm of digital gaming.

    Wargaming was once something done with miniatures on a table. It became something with a paper map and cardboard counters in the 70s more or less. Role gaming was books and funny shaped dice long before it was something played on a computer.

    It doesn't matter what the device, gaming is either non-electricity using, or it is.

    So I was there in the beginning, and I am here now.
    I've seen board games and role games back when they were simple products.
    I watched them get fancy and then aided by computer generation processes.
    I recall all the pre 90s proto computer devices.
    I've also used all the latest options, laptops, tablets, cellphones, and various ways to get online.

    There seems to be a single common all-encompassing detail connected to all of gaming.
    It seems like it's all been done.

    I'm wondering, is it possible, gaming is not dead or dying, just suffering from a complete lack of a way to do it differently enough to care.

    I recall how totally awesome Tactics II was, until I discovered Blitzkrieg, until I discovered Third Reich, until I discovered Civilization.
    I played some weird notions created by the local gang prior to 1st edition advanced D&D. Which went to 2nd fairly fast. Which became 3rd edition. And during this, I experienced quite a few other designs all trying to beat the original notion of Chain mail somehow. I really got into 4th edition AD&D, but only because they let the Alternity design just fade away. I actually like Warhammer FRP 2nd edition the most.

    But the world of computer games pretty much stole the show.
    Today the phrase 'wargame' is often thought to mean Call of Duty. That's just a sandbox experience where you run around shooting things.
    Today the phrase 'rolegame' is usually assumed to mean World of Warcraft. People seem to have forgotten about the funny shaped dice, the pop and chips and hanging out with friends to all manner of late hours on the weekend.

    It doesn't really matter one way or another though.
    I'm wondering, has the world of gaming, finally gotten to a point, where it is simply, been there done that, so much so, that none of it is fresh any longer.

    How many ways can you make a board game of a military history moment?
    How many ways can you simulate it on a machine based environment?
    How many ways can you invent humans orcs and elves and dwarves?
    Or any other imaginary realm.
    How many ways can you simulate an imaginary person?

    It's been done. It's all been done.
    The world doesn't need yet another recreation of WW2 on a board game, or a digital method.
    It looks like WoW has had its day.
    I don't think we need a PS5.
    I don't think they can graphically make a game any more awesome than what they have done.

    I play Hearthstone daily. But, it has been a year, several expansions, and nothing really has changed. I start each month at about rank 23, and play until about rank 18 and just settle in to play that month away until rinse repeat I do it again. I win about 70% of my games. I don't think there is a way to make a collectible trading card game for the computer any better. If WoW tanks and Blizzard runs out of steam, it likely will drag Hearthstone along with it.

    There are a few great wargames that have been created in the last 20 years.
    But the reality is, I'd rather play Squad Leader, not ASL.
    I'd rather play Steel Panthers, likely not Steel Tigers.
    I'd rather play Advanced Third Reich, on a table, than on a device.
    I'd rather play Warhammer FRP 2nd edition and on a table, than any computer gaming variation.

    Yes, yes, yes, I know, you are in a situation, where job, life, family, just doesn't permit you any other choice.
    Choices, it's always choices.
    You picked where you live, you chose the job you chose.
    If you are married, there's no reason you can't say you are taking one day a week to kill cardboard over at a buddy's place.
    There's only one person stopping you from role gaming or wargaming... it's YOU.

    But the question here is not about can you game. It's have our games simply reached a point where it's all been done before?
    The only reason I go into an EB games location, is I'm looking for toys. I couldn't care less what latest device is on sale. I don't care what new game is out.
    None of it is new anymore. I don't really need it. I have too many games now.

    Is the market oversaturated in more of the same?
    I'm not going to spend all day on politics. Why bother.
    You need to finally get it. There's not reps vs dems, right vs left. It's the rich 1% vs the 99%. If you are not part of the 1%, you are a nobody, politicians included.

  • #2
    I used to have a bunch of wargames on my computer, but my computer died back in early December. It took until January to get it back. I have not been able to download the old games I lost yet. I really miss my Order of Battle Pacific, Barbarossa. and my Panzer General back. With the hit, my SSI is trying to pay off some doctor bills. Money was tight before and it is tighter now. I remember having several game CD's but I can't find them. Worse the ones I downloaded off the net won't let me back in without a password. I am screwed! Life lesson is don't get sick!

    Pruitt

    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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    • #3
      I didn't start playing PC games until after I got my first computer in 1989. Prior to that I played card games, board games, and other games depending on my age, surroundings, available participants, and other circumstances.

      After thirty years of PC gaming, my tastes have changed and PC games don't entertain me as much as they did during the "Golden Age of PC Gaming." I still enjoy some of the PC games that I played 20+ years ago more than most of those that have been recently released. Whether that's because my interests have changed or because the games aren't as good as were in the past is debatable.

      I have more than enough games in my possession to last me the rest of my life. Curiosity is the main reason I continue buying PC games. But I haven't bought a physical board game in years--there's no one here to play them with; I could get more players with a deck of cards.

      But I have learned one thing in my thirty years of computer gaming: No matter how good a game is, it will have its detractors. And no matter how bad a game is, it will have its fans. It is all a matter of personal perspective.
      "I have never known a combat soldier who did not show a residue of war." --Sergeant Ed Stewart, 84th Division, US Army, WWII

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      • #4
        Board games are retarded. I have travel sets of board games, I don't know what I was thinking of when I bought them, When was the last time you saw someone pull out a miniature chessboard and magnetic play pieces on the bus?
        Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

        Prayers.

        BoRG

        http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Salinator View Post
          Board games are retarded.
          oQLkCm8.jpg

          A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Greybriar View Post
            I didn't start playing PC games until after I got my first computer in 1989. Prior to that I played card games, board games, and other games depending on my age, surroundings, available participants, and other circumstances.

            After thirty years of PC gaming, my tastes have changed and PC games don't entertain me as much as they did during the "Golden Age of PC Gaming." I still enjoy some of the PC games that I played 20+ years ago more than most of those that have been recently released. Whether that's because my interests have changed or because the games aren't as good as were in the past is debatable.

            I have more than enough games in my possession to last me the rest of my life. Curiosity is the main reason I continue buying PC games. But I haven't bought a physical board game in years--there's no one here to play them with; I could get more players with a deck of cards.

            But I have learned one thing in my thirty years of computer gaming: No matter how good a game is, it will have its detractors. And no matter how bad a game is, it will have its fans. It is all a matter of personal perspective.
            Concerning board games, have you looked around for clubs? I live in a pretty rural area but I've found tabletop gamers at library events and gaming clubs. Many board game shops have something equivalent to game night.

            Tabletop is merging with the tech stream in some ways as well and that presents long range social gaming opportunities. VASSAL has a hefty library of GMT and Avalon Hill titles that allow for a kind of Skype like gaming session with digital board displays. Roll 20 does the same for tabletop RPGs.
            A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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            • #7
              Board games CAN get stupid. But, then again, so can computer titles.

              I owned ASL. Awesome product. Most people that own it, never get around to playing it. Makes you wonder why they bought it.

              I also wonder what they were thinking with the Europa series. Fire in the East. Really? a map that is 6x8! Who even has a 6x8 room not doing anything? Let alone a 6x8 table in a room that's obviously larger. And they designed an add-on map to complete Russia because 6x8 wasn't big enough. And that's just Russia. They mapped out all of the European theatre. But the games are awesome. Just massively unrealistic.

              But computers didn't remove the obsession with massively unrealistic. Because Gary has designed the War in the East and War in the West products for the computer. Sure, it's a computer game, so it fits wherever your computer sits. But it's still about the same level of undertaking. I think the only reason he was able to be part of the group that made it, was because I, an ASL player, was also willing to buy it.

              I don't think the wargames are 'retarded', but, I suspect a lot of the old guard grognard wargaming community might be

              They COULD have just released new sets of counters and new maps and scenarios for Squad Leader. No messing with the rules, just more product. In retrospect, I wish they had.

              But that's what separates wargamers from non-wargamers. We simply won't leave something alone after it's proven to work.
              The vast majority of computer wargames are NOT patched and patched and patched the first year after release due to dodgy software. They are just being fidgeted with thanks to the annoyed wargamer audience that simply won't leave something alone.

              My collection of board games, work fine decades after release. You buy the game, and it might get a few releases over the course of many years.
              Generally, computer wargames tend to cease to be patched/updated after the first year. After that, usually, the just rerelease the product as version two.
              Panzer Corps has a gold version. Chances are it will be a great game from now until you die. But they are working on Panzer Corps 2. It probably will be nice, but, it won't be needed really.
              I own Battle Academy, and Battle Academy 2 wasn't really different in enough ways to consider BA 1 no longer worth getting.

              There are some board games, I do wish would be re-released. Not new and revised, just reprinted. UpFront is my favourite example. But it seems the rights are owned by a corporate entity that just doesn't feel like it.

              If you walk into any hobby shop though, it's plain board games are not dead, not at all. But if you like a title, grab it that day. Because print runs are finite.

              Meanwhile, digital realms are not evolving easily where brick and mortar locations are concerned. The local games store (vs hobby ie board games), today is finding itself increasingly forced to sell non-digital gaming products to survive. Because internet delivery is becoming the norm.

              And nothing is forever. It looks like Blizzard and World of Warcraft might be losing steam. Everything has it's day it would appear.
              Too much of been there done that perhaps.

              My local hobby store is receptive to a gaming night weekly. Probably a 3-5 2-hour time slot maximum during store hours. 2 hours is enough for most board games I have found. The only thing necessary is to mandate cellphones are turned off (attention span is needed), and not let the chair be claimed by collectible card playing types if you want to actually be playing board games not based on a card game. Nothing wrong with the card games though. I'm planning to host a role gaming event weekly. Because finding a decent room with proper tables and chairs is never simple. Especially a venue that's free.

              I don't know if I will ever manage to return to the 70s and weekend long wargames in my home.
              I am unsure if I can manage role games in my home again either.
              But the store is cool enough to provide the room table and chairs to me. It helps I'm a close friend of the owner.

              Society has been conned (and I'm not backing down from that comment), into thinking everything is better from a computer screen or device alone, and not in a single location where everyone is present. It's a lie. Wargaming would never have been born in the absence of in-person board games. Online MMOs only exist, because young people getting together in a room playing board game versions made it happen. They might not be entirely geek/nerd audiences anymore. Not relevant. Online is 'convenient' only. It isn't superior in any fashion.

              I'm simply not buying the notion you are two isolated and there's no one to play with.
              Get off your damned cellphone, get dressed go outside, and you will find people. They ARE out there.
              I know this to be true. A. I'm one of them and B. I've met those people.
              I'm not going to spend all day on politics. Why bother.
              You need to finally get it. There's not reps vs dems, right vs left. It's the rich 1% vs the 99%. If you are not part of the 1%, you are a nobody, politicians included.

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              • #8
                It would be my opinion that there are plenty of games that haven't seen the light of day yet, and while at this point they may be variations on a theme to some extent, new gaming experiences are still to come.

                I do believe that had PCs been up to the task when classics like D&D were invented, the board game portion of the industry would have been put on the back-burner long before it actually was, and perhaps would already have seen its resurgence that is currently underway come and gone by now.

                One game that still hasn't been invented has been invented, but not in its perfect form, as yet: WWIIOnline.

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                • #9
                  I confess! I have hundreds of mbs of old boardgame rules and graphics files. I have Vassal, Cyberboard and ADC2 installed on my laptop.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by OttoHarkaman View Post
                    I confess! I have hundreds of mbs of old boardgame rules and graphics files. I have Vassal, Cyberboard and ADC2 installed on my laptop.
                    I possess a great wealth of software dedicated to the notion of playing board games via a form of digital option.
                    I guess I am a stick in the mud. I want the opponent on the other side of the table, not on another computer and not even close.
                    I want to watch his dice rolls and laugh "haha you rolled a 4, 6 for Warsaw".
                    I want to enjoy sharing a beer while playing the game.
                    I want to use unfair tactics like low cut tops while moving my units bent over the table

                    I'm not going to spend all day on politics. Why bother.
                    You need to finally get it. There's not reps vs dems, right vs left. It's the rich 1% vs the 99%. If you are not part of the 1%, you are a nobody, politicians included.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sukunai Niyori View Post

                      I possess a great wealth of software dedicated to the notion of playing board games via a form of digital option.
                      I guess I am a stick in the mud. I want the opponent on the other side of the table, not on another computer and not even close.
                      I want to watch his dice rolls and laugh "haha you rolled a 4, 6 for Warsaw".
                      I want to enjoy sharing a beer while playing the game.
                      I want to use unfair tactics like low cut tops while moving my units bent over the table
                      Hmmm. Have to reconsider now that 'unfair tactics' have been mentioned...

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                      • #12
                        I am trying to replace some of the games I lost when my Computer crashed. So far I have sent them $44 and I can't get any to finish downloading!

                        Pruitt
                        Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                        Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                        by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sukunai Niyori View Post

                          I possess a great wealth of software dedicated to the notion of playing board games via a form of digital option.
                          I guess I am a stick in the mud. I want the opponent on the other side of the table, not on another computer and not even close.
                          I want to watch his dice rolls and laugh "haha you rolled a 4, 6 for Warsaw".
                          I want to enjoy sharing a beer while playing the game.
                          I want to use unfair tactics like low cut tops while moving my units bent over the table
                          Table Top simulator may be a good option for you. You can definitely watch the other guy roll dice and through discord trash talk each other

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