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Article - Understanding Your Local Grognard Parts I & II

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  • #31
    There was no "under high school" education option. I don't know of any other junior higher wargamers in america.
    All warfare is based on deception.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by [email protected]
      There was no "under high school" education option. I don't know of any other junior higher wargamers in america.
      Who do you think buys all the RTS/FPS games? Of course, there were those of us who were wargamers, and just didn't realize it.
      Nominated "Wing Nut" by Forum Staff member.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Secret Agent
        Who do you think buys all the RTS/FPS games? Of course, there were those of us who were wargamers, and just didn't realize it.
        No, seriously, I'm the youngest wargamer I know
        (unless of course I'm younger than me, in which case I wouldn't be the youngest wargamer becasue I would be younger than me therefore, I wouldn't be. Oh I'd keep talking but the guys came to bring me back to my nice, padded room...Bye guys)
        All warfare is based on deception.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by [email protected]
          No, seriously, I'm the youngest wargamer I know
          (unless of course I'm younger than me, in which case I wouldn't be the youngest wargamer becasue I would be younger than me therefore, I wouldn't be. Oh I'd keep talking but the guys came to bring me back to my nice, padded room...Bye guys)
          Look; America's Army has, what, 22,000,000 players? I'm sure there are a TON of pre-teens among them! (Not that I've met any of them.... )
          Nominated "Wing Nut" by Forum Staff member.

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          • #35
            Bump. Part II of the article is done. You can check it out here.

            I appreciate everyone's input for this thing. We had over 640 people take the survey, which is really great for getting good data.

            Enjoy!
            Our forefathers died to give us freedom, not free stuff.

            I write books about zombies as E.E. Isherwood. Check me out at ZombieBooks.net.

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            • #36
              Interesting Results Brian. As you said in the article it reaffirmed what we were allready guessing/knew but its interesting that you found some results you weren't expecting.
              The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed. -Carl Jung

              Hell is other people. -Jean-Paul Sarte

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              • #37
                Great article Brian. Not surprising the NT combination should dominate. Combines the ability to deal with the masses of detail involved in a wargame with the broader intuitive view necessary to apply all the data to effective decision making.
                Boston Strong!

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                • #38
                  Very interesting stuff. I teach Naval Leadership to senior NCO's for the US Navy and one of the topics we cover is the Kearsey-Bates profiles. It was interesting to see how the results broke out.
                  I think the most intersting question is: Does the person become the gamer, or does the game make the person? I think that the answer is a little of both, but I would think that environment has a lot to do with it as well. Where did you grow up and where do you live now? What were the "typical" activities that people your age were doing while you were gaming? Do you come from a broken home, a conservite home, religious, etc? Was your new hobby encouraged, discouraged or indifferent? I would suppose that if your dad spent most of his time drinking beer and working on the car in the garage with his buddies, the chances of you becomming a wargamer would be pretty low. I don't know, but I would be very interested in seeing a demographic breakdown of wargamers.
                  Just my thoughts for whatever it's worth.

                  Ken
                  "Sailors belong on ships, ships belong at sea... land is just a navigational hazard."

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                  • #39
                    Temperament, Type, and Wargamers

                    Originally posted by Siberian HEAT
                    I have written what I hope will be an interesting article on who we are as Wargamers. . . .
                    It was an interesting article to me alright, as this is something I've mulled over for years. I started wargaming in 1968 and have also been enthused about personality typing for a number of years.

                    For nearly two years, I've been running a discussion group on the Keirseyan temperaments (the root of most information that's being bandied about, usually under the "MBTI" header). You're invited to visit or join at:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/temperamenttalk/

                    I'll have to go back and look at the bar graph, but it's certainly surprising that there'd be such a concentration of INTJs in *any* group. In the first place it's one of the rarer types, and in the second place INTJs are notorious for having trouble getting along with other people. I'm married to an INTJ, so I have some firsthand knowledge.

                    It does make sense that there'd be a lot of Rationals (NTs) in the wargaming world. These are the folks whose basic drive is knowledge seeking and who have a need to feel competent. Activities like chess and wargames would be right up their alley--especially for introverted Rationals.

                    I myself am an INFP--which helps explain why I've always been an odd duck among mavericks. For us NF "Idealists," the joy of wargaming has more to do with imagination than anything else. I've never been very good at chess or wargames; I'm a perpetual novice. But wargames come alive in my imagination, and for me it's a little like a grownup version of "playing army."

                    Another curiosity about NF/Idealists is that we tend to be conflict avoidant. For that reason I've mostly avoided one-on-one competition over my years in wargaming. Even back in the board-gaming days I played solitaire about 95 percent of the time. That way I could "choreograph" the battle or campaign and enjoy the imaginative experience, without having to endure all the tension inherent in head-to-head competition.

                    I'm a little surprised to see so few SP "Artisans" in wargaming. I was a longtime subscriber to the Usenet group rec.games.board, where they mainly discuss lighter games--family games and the new "German" games (which are also family games, but with room for competitive skill building). There were clearly a few SPs in that group. SPs tend to be "tactical" and live moment to moment, so they're likely to be attracted to gambling games or fast-moving games with plenty of tactical opportunity. Wargames, by and large, might be too overwhelmingly cerebral for their taste--and too strategic.

                    Again, I'll have to go back and revisit the bar graph. I'll be curious to see how many SJ "Guardians" are into wargaming. These are the traditionalists--and it would make sense that fans of the History Channel would find history-based wargames interesting. Wargames have a way of bringing slices of the past to life.

                    Anyhow, great article! Made my morning.
                    --Patrick Carroll


                    "Do all you have agreed to do, and do not encroach on other persons or their property." (Richard Maybury)

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                    • #40
                      Breakdown by Temperament

                      As Mr. King mentioned in his article, the sixteen personality types we're looking at arise from four basic temperaments, as defined by David Keirsey in his best-selling book Please Understand Me II.

                      The temperaments are Rational (_NT_), Artisan (_S_P), Guardian (_S_J), and Idealist (_NF_).

                      I just tallied up the numbers from the bar graph, and here's how they come up temperament-wise:

                      Rational (NT): 340
                      Guardian (SJ): 157
                      Idealist (NF): 97
                      Artisan (SP): 47

                      In my previous message, I touched upon why each of the four temperaments might be into wargaming. Here's another little synopsis:

                      Rationals are knowledge seekers; they have a basic need for self-mastery and competence and are usually driven to achieve. Their strong suit is what Keirsey calls "strategic intelligence"--long-range planning and considering the big picture. I think it's pretty obvious how wargames provide good exercise in strategic intelligence, so I won't go into it.

                      Guardians are security seekers; they have a basic need for membership or belonging as well as duty or responsibility. Their strong suit is "logistical intelligence"--getting the right things to the right places at the right time. Guardians are also attuned to the past and tradition. So, besides logistical exercise, I'd say wargames provide Guardians with slices of "living history."

                      Idealists are identity seekers; they have basic needs for meaning & significance and for a sense of unique identity. Their strong suit is "diplomatic intelligence"--they're driven to establish and maintain rapport with others. Idealists are usually conflict avoidant, so I'm betting most Idealist wargamers are in it for the imaginative experience (escapism) and likely play solitaire or at least noncompetitively.

                      Artisans are stimulation (or sensation) seekers; they have basic needs for freedom to act on impulse and ability to make an impact. Their strong suit is "tactical intelligence"--coup d'oeil, or the knack for instantly sizing up situations and snatching opportunities. While most Artisans would probably lack the patience for long, complicated wargames, some will appreciate the visceral quality of games that simulate war; others will like fast-playing tactical exercises in wargame form.

                      A little more on the four temperaments can be found at:
                      www.4temperaments.com
                      Last edited by Patrick Carroll; 20 Jun 05, 13:45.
                      --Patrick Carroll


                      "Do all you have agreed to do, and do not encroach on other persons or their property." (Richard Maybury)

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                      • #41
                        Thanks Patrick for taking the time to read my article and expand on the temperaments in such detail! I think the best part of writing this one was that so many people have been able to relate to the findings (myself included) thus fulfilling my initial goal which was to help us understand ourselves better. I was overwhelmed at the participation in the survey and again want to thank everyone for taking a peak at the article!
                        Our forefathers died to give us freedom, not free stuff.

                        I write books about zombies as E.E. Isherwood. Check me out at ZombieBooks.net.

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                        • #42
                          I agree Brian, it was a good article.

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                          • #43
                            Best Type Descriptions

                            In case anyone is still following this, the best personality-type descriptions I've found are available for free at:
                            www.bestfittype.com

                            There's a lot of misinformation floating around, but Dr. Berens has produced some balanced descriptions. If you know your type and want to see it described fairly--or if you're still trying to figure out your type--try this link.
                            --Patrick Carroll


                            "Do all you have agreed to do, and do not encroach on other persons or their property." (Richard Maybury)

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                            • #44
                              I was about to ask if we could get a hold of the dataset for this, and then I realized, I could just read the article and see you already posted the link.
                              “To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which is one of the foundations of American life.”

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                              • #45
                                Well, I was flattered with my testresults !

                                ENTJ (Extraverted, Intuitive, Thinking, Judging)
                                It seems I am a Fieldmarshal-type !!!

                                My scores however, are low 11/25/1/22...
                                I guess this means that I am not so radical in my opinions and more moderate...
                                I must admit, I can be very extravert at times, but I can also immensely enjoy being on my own, locked up in my office for a whole day...

                                It seems the rest all have high scores ranging from 20-60 !!! Is everybody radical here at ACG ?



                                Greets,
                                Stratego

                                PS: Awesome article and test !!!
                                Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily.- Napoleon

                                It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.- Herman Melville

                                Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

                                BORG

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