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  • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    You and ShAA hit it on the nail head.

    It lacks the grim feel of F3; the Capitol Wasteland was really something. FNV had its own style, and I liked it a lot.
    Interesting, I thought the visuals in F4 were better than in F3 and NV. At least for me it was the game's saving grace. I wandered the wasteland for hours just for this feel of desolation and discovery. By the way, a lot of locations were pretty standard - big factories or apartment buildings full of ghouls/raiders/supermutants. I guess game designers put them on the map as a "combat filler" for the game. From time to time you get to read old records on the terminals, but they all folllow the same pattern (same as in F3 and NV): "We don't care about ecology and work safety, a few people got killed at work, let's cover it up". You can repeat a good joke a few times, but after so many repetitions it becomes boring. It's a very minor quibble though.

    One of the biggest failings of F4 (and F3) is the character's inability to take part in shaping the future of the communities the player visits, which was one of the things that made F2 one of the greatest games in history. If you remember, in F2 you could make life-changing decisions pretty much at every place you visited: you decided who of the three cities would get the excavator chip, you could make Vault City prosper by fixing the power plant or leave it in its stagnation, you decided the future of the NCR by exposing the corrupt senator and wiping out the raiders in the Vault, you could side with any of the gangster families in New Reno, etc. There's very little of it in F4. All these communities (or factions) like Good Neighbor and Diamond City might have people who have their ideas about the future and they give you quests, but you don't seem to be able to influence their politics. None of these communities seems to be interested in the outside world in terms of setting up alliances, waging wars or even trading. They just hang out here! Compare this to F2 with the politics going on between NCR and others, and a significant part of NV was about who different communities would side with and how it would affect their future and the confrontation between the Legion and the NCR.

    Another wrecked part of the classical game is the skills and dialogues. You can have 1 Intelligence, and still have the same dialogue options as a guy with 10 Intelligence. You can have 1 Strength and still be able to use miniguns. The dialogues themselves are a disgrace - not only you are severely limited in answer options, your conversational skills matter for nothing. Actually, they don't seem to be a factor in the game - the developers threw them out as something standing in the way of their primitive plot. There's still Charisma and I suppose it influences your ability to persuade someone, but it's nothing compared to being able to find out something extraordinary, like a new location or a Jet recipe or a new location, or persuade a character to do something for you, etc. based on your skills, traits and Intellect like it was in the previous games. I'm not speaking of actually role-playing (it's an RPG, right?), which means acting - and being able to act - in accordance to the personality an skills of the character you designed.
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    • Originally posted by ShAA View Post
      Interesting, I thought the visuals in F4 were better than in F3 and NV. At least for me it was the game's saving grace. I wandered the wasteland for hours just for this feel of desolation and discovery. By the way, a lot of locations were pretty standard - big factories or apartment buildings full of ghouls/raiders/supermutants. I guess game designers put them on the map as a "combat filler" for the game. From time to time you get to read old records on the terminals, but they all folllow the same pattern (same as in F3 and NV): "We don't care about ecology and work safety, a few people got killed at work, let's cover it up". You can repeat a good joke a few times, but after so many repetitions it becomes boring. It's a very minor quibble though.

      One of the biggest failings of F4 (and F3) is the character's inability to take part in shaping the future of the communities the player visits, which was one of the things that made F2 one of the greatest games in history. If you remember, in F2 you could make life-changing decisions pretty much at every place you visited: you decided who of the three cities would get the excavator chip, you could make Vault City prosper by fixing the power plant or leave it in its stagnation, you decided the future of the NCR by exposing the corrupt senator and wiping out the raiders in the Vault, you could side with any of the gangster families in New Reno, etc. There's very little of it in F4. All these communities (or factions) like Good Neighbor and Diamond City might have people who have their ideas about the future and they give you quests, but you don't seem to be able to influence their politics. None of these communities seems to be interested in the outside world in terms of setting up alliances, waging wars or even trading. They just hang out here! Compare this to F2 with the politics going on between NCR and others, and a significant part of NV was about who different communities would side with and how it would affect their future and the confrontation between the Legion and the NCR.

      Another wrecked part of the classical game is the skills and dialogues. You can have 1 Intelligence, and still have the same dialogue options as a guy with 10 Intelligence. You can have 1 Strength and still be able to use miniguns. The dialogues themselves are a disgrace - not only you are severely limited in answer options, your conversational skills matter for nothing. Actually, they don't seem to be a factor in the game - the developers threw them out as something standing in the way of their primitive plot. There's still Charisma and I suppose it influences your ability to persuade someone, but it's nothing compared to being able to find out something extraordinary, like a new location or a Jet recipe or a new location, or persuade a character to do something for you, etc. based on your skills, traits and Intellect like it was in the previous games. I'm not speaking of actually role-playing (it's an RPG, right?), which means acting - and being able to act - in accordance to the personality an skills of the character you designed.
      I agree completely.

      Frankly, I miss the skills. In the older games you built your PC via the skills, and it impacted upon game play. You have to make value decisions about weapons load-outs based on your skill choices.

      In F4 you are a jack of all trades who continually gets better via perks.

      I would like to point out that they finally fixed the grenade issue; F3 and FNV's treatment of grenades was very clumsy.

      I found the community-building aspect to be annoying at best, although I liked the way they handled the workshops, allowing you to store materials until they were needed. In future games I don't plan to bother building communities. Unless the DLC makes them more interesting. In my current game I have a sizeable network of towns, but I have zero emotional investment in them.
      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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