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  • Dungeons & Dragons Fourth Edition Announced

    Dungeons & Dragons Fourth Edition Announced

    Wizards of the Coast has announced the upcoming release of the fourth edition of the legendary Dungeons & Dragons fantasy roleplaying game at GenCon.
    Stay Alert, Stay Alive!

  • #2
    This is SOOOOOOOO utterly going to freak out, **** off and anger all the suckers err I mean loyal fans that bought 3.0 only to be butt f**ked into rebuying 3.5.

    I don't think they can make 4 simple enough, nor consice enough, or user friendly only enough, to make the 3.5 fans not feel utterly milked and betrayed.

    Possible responses might be a massive shunning of the new product by the 3.5 community. Not to mention the online mob that play games designed for 3.5 rules concepts.

    Personally, I like the sound of the online interactivity offered, but then, I have yet to buy a single 3.0 or 3.5 product as I am still pissed from being milked through 2nd edition products that I foolishly over spent on.

    Today, I have been hacking away at my Alternity design books, attempting to edit and prune and basically reduce down to the lowest common denominator.
    I currently have produced a variation of Alternity, that is fantasy genre (it was designed for scifi of course) and currently requires approximately about 10 pages to sum up (not counting setting based doodles that don't really count).

    I'm kinda looking forward to seeing the group this sunday and asking them what they think of all this (they own a LOT of 3.5 books eh).

    "A major change in the fourth edition will be the addition of an online component, known as D&D Insider, which will offer community forums and web-based tools such as an online character generator, Dungeon Master tools and a "digital game table" which WotC says will let gamers "play 24/7 on the internet." The online services, including monthly magazine-style content, will be available for an as-yet undetermined monthly fee."

    This could be the next major change to the online rolegaming experience.
    Life is change. Built models for decades.
    Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
    I didn't for a long time either.

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    • #3
      Yup. I don't need new rules. I need some fresh injection of imagination. I just began a 3.5 campaign. My first game in almost 20 years, not counting a few false starts. I was very picky about choosing players so as not to wander into the "3.5 was designed as a miniatures game" issue. A good roleplaying game needs a bare minimum of rules. I really wish I hadn't tossed my 1st edition books. I am long past tired of buying the latest edition of games forced on customers by marketing plans. Especially as the new generation of games focus on rules and miniatures and downplay imagination and roleplaying (although with a good group you don't need to worry about that too much). Unfortunately, even their suplements tend to focus on the use of rule sets. I'll put my money into imaginitive and thoughtful tools but I won't pay $50 a book for a game system I have bought five times already.

      I talked to a comic shop owner and he is cutting way back on his roleplaying gear. He is pissed that once again a large portion of his stock is being forced into obsolesence and he'll have to sell it off for no profit.
      Last edited by Duncan; 17 Aug 07, 12:20.

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      • #4
        I read 3.0, and said **** that. I didn't spend the 90's buying all their supplemental handbooks to get screwed like that. I still have a near complete 1st Edition set, and a damn near complete 2nd Edition set, and I run a hybrid of 1st & 2nd Editions. All the info you ever need is there, you just have to know which book to look in. I even still use the Basic D & D cyclopedia. Some of the best work ever done with RPG's.

        I boycott all non-TSR D & D!!!
        "This life..., you know, "the life." Youíre not gonna get any medals, kid. This is not a hero business; you donít shoot people from a mile a way. You gotta stand right next to them... blow their heads off."

        BoRG

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        • #5
          What is frustrating, is there IS some truely nice work out there on the market, but, if that truly nice work is designed for one system, and you have the other, what good is it without a lot fudging and or converting?

          And I have found, that by the time you have fudged and converted enough to make the change, you likely could have written it yourself.

          That's the heart of my choice of Alternity. It's d20, but it's also short, sweet, and not a shelf full of books. Players book, Game Masters book, Beyond Science for those that need special effects. Have not needed anything else. Once had Dataware, but realized I could think up anything in it on the fly with my eyes closed.

          Compare that with D&D3.5 which has more books than I can count, and at least 3 or 4 well known major lines of alternative material made to be compliant with it. A person could easily end up with over 100 titles if they wanted.

          "Optional" man I hate that word. Optional my hairy butt. If the player gets wind of it, and it's cool, and you own it, it's not optional. If the player gets wind of it, likes it, and buys it, chances are they will expect you to allow it. This is also annoying, because if it's theirs, you likely won't have easy access to it as if it was yours. But you still need to be able to employ it.

          A great design should be short and sweet. Everything else should be the player's problem to think up. Beyond Science has some atypical magic for wizards and priests types, as well as super powers. But the best part of the book is the table where it tells you how to make up FXs on your own.
          Essentially that is where it is at for me. No special books with reams of magic that in time everyone has heard of. Nope. In my game, chances are you won't have heard of nearly anything.

          New PCs are always new, I don't use classes.
          Don't really use standardized adversary races either, so that Goblin won't necessarily be just another meaningless 1 hit die monster.

          This is where D&D3.5 dropped the ball for me, and why I will play it, but I sure ain't paying for it. Everything is so massively detailed out, so utterly stated, that it's rare anyone actually encounters something unquantified.

          Who knows, maybe D&D4 is a reflection that they realize they went to far (I seriously doubt that).
          I agree with Paul though, the original Rules Cyclopedia is a nice product. A complete game in one only book.
          Life is change. Built models for decades.
          Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
          I didn't for a long time either.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Aries View Post
            I agree with Paul though....
            That's the final sign of the Apocalypse....

            Seriously though, Wizards of the Coast went too far, and I couldn't get into their version of the game. I've been playing with 1st Edition since I was years old, and alot of people have complimented me for the cohesion I made between 1st and 2nd, so when 3rd came around, I gave it a good read and didn't see anything I didn't already have. I guess I'm stingy, but why buy new books if the old ones work just fine. Why a new Edition? Money. They can't have mine. If they manage to fix the system, or reign it in, then I'll pick up a few supplements to add flavor to what I have, but that's it.

            I also have a group of players that don't "fit the description" of a RPG player, and it's taken a long time to cultivate my system, with their help, changing it would just take away from our game time. I know change is good, that's why we change up games (Dark Conspiracy, Twilight:2000, Shadowrun, Palladium, ect) when D&D starts to languish. It just seems like alot of work and money to commit for no reason.
            "This life..., you know, "the life." Youíre not gonna get any medals, kid. This is not a hero business; you donít shoot people from a mile a way. You gotta stand right next to them... blow their heads off."

            BoRG

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            • #7
              WOTC has sold their souls to corporate greed a long time ago.

              D&D reached its zenith in the 2nd edition in most peoples opinions, including mine.

              Like P.V. Mann mentioned above, i ran a hybrid game. It was a combination of the original game from the '70's, and the AD&D of the '80s and the 2nd edition game from the '90s.

              To me the epitome of the writing for AD&D was done when you linked the following series of modules together to form one giant campaign - Against the Giants {a 3 part series}, The Vault of the Drow, Queen of the Demonweb Pits, and finally out into space in the first Spell Jammer module.

              I wish my fellow players hadnt moved away, i do miss it so.
              http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...200pixwide.jpg

              Kampfgruppe - A Wargaming Clan Since 1998

              NorbertSnyderJr.com

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              • #8
                Originally posted by KGPanzerschrecK View Post
                To me the epitome of the writing for AD&D was done when you linked the following series of modules together to form one giant campaign - Against the Giants {a 3 part series}, The Vault of the Drow, Queen of the Demonweb Pits, and finally out into space in the first Spell Jammer module.
                Best modules I ever played in or ran, came out of Basic D&D (Rules Cyclopedia has coversion charts). Start a campaing with X1: The Isle of Dread, isolated, but with outdoor and indoor sections, you have total control to introdue the party to itelf and get people into the rules. Once they have that completed, it plays perfectly into X:2 Chateu D'Amerville (the best mod ever made) and the party, once free of that module, should know itself well enough that you have very little directing to do, you can have time to work out your plans for them, because they'll have so many of their own ideas they'll be working out.

                I played these with an older group when I was about 16, and when I was about 18 I found the modules for myself, and ever since they've been a staple of my campaigns. I expanded them with B:2 The Keep on the Borderlands, as an into mod, and the Maps in the back of the rules cyclopedia provide a great world, with no set border, so I expanded until most the "worlds" of D&D could be found on my "planet."

                F-in' Spell Jammer put an end to that though, and I ended up with a map of space..., Ahhh, the good times....


                Originally posted by KGPanzerschrecK View Post
                I wish my fellow players hadnt moved away, i do miss it so.
                Without the players, we have nothing.....
                "This life..., you know, "the life." Youíre not gonna get any medals, kid. This is not a hero business; you donít shoot people from a mile a way. You gotta stand right next to them... blow their heads off."

                BoRG

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                • #9
                  WotC is running out of money already? This game system has been on a downhill slide since 2nd Ed came out, although I do like the kits .
                  If you can't set a good example, be a glaring warning.

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                  • #10
                    Oh my god the pain.

                    Here's an OFFICIAL video, promoted on YouTube, pretending to promote 4th edition.

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_e5wAUwdmM

                    This utter travesty, is the work of PROs, and isn't even up to the level of what my son can create while doodling on his computer.

                    The game is in the hands or morons.

                    Mark 2008 as the year WotC should be put out of OUR misery.

                    If you endure to the half way part of that link, you get past the crummy poorly rendered timeline, to where you can almost hear two fools advertising the new game. I turned my volume up to 75%, and had Youtube at max, and STILL they are barely audible.

                    And this is part 1 of three videos on a real company web site.

                    I can only hope these two jerks were tormented regularly in school by football playing jocks.

                    Please stop the horror.
                    Life is change. Built models for decades.
                    Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
                    I didn't for a long time either.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by KGPanzerschrecK View Post
                      WOTC has sold their souls to corporate greed a long time ago.

                      D&D reached its zenith in the 2nd edition in most peoples opinions, including mine.

                      Like P.V. Mann mentioned above, i ran a hybrid game. It was a combination of the original game from the '70's, and the AD&D of the '80s and the 2nd edition game from the '90s.

                      To me the epitome of the writing for AD&D was done when you linked the following series of modules together to form one giant campaign - Against the Giants {a 3 part series}, The Vault of the Drow, Queen of the Demonweb Pits, and finally out into space in the first Spell Jammer module.

                      I wish my fellow players hadnt moved away, i do miss it so.
                      Wasn't the Temple of Elemental evi 4 part series plus I think one against some slavers also part of the Giants/drow series?
                      I used to have ToEE on PC which after all the numerous bugs had been fixed was pretty good.
                      "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by KGPanzerschrecK View Post
                        To me the epitome of the writing for AD&D was done when you linked the following series of modules together to form one giant campaign - Against the Giants {a 3 part series}, The Vault of the Drow, Queen of the Demonweb Pits, and finally out into space in the first Spell Jammer module.
                        You do it right, and you go from T1-4 to A1-4 to the GDQ series, and play from first level right thru to 15th or so.
                        In the event of another forum meltdown, feel free to join us over at www.armchairdragoons.com

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                        • #14
                          Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                          Wasn't the Temple of Elemental evi 4 part series plus I think one against some slavers also part of the Giants/drow series?
                          I used to have ToEE on PC which after all the numerous bugs had been fixed was pretty good.
                          Im not sure, but then again the version i mentioned playing was taken from a idea someone had a tournament, it wasnt an official following to the letter of the modules in order. But i will say that when played that way it matched up like they were written to do so.
                          http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...200pixwide.jpg

                          Kampfgruppe - A Wargaming Clan Since 1998

                          NorbertSnyderJr.com

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                          • #15
                            This should have been no surprise. Wizards of the Coasts marketing strategy would seem to be clear enough from their collectable cards games. Constantly release new material that makes old material obsolete. I never bought any of their D&D products because I had absolute confidence that they would repeatedly release new versions.
                            "Put guards on all the roads, and don't let the men run to the rear."
                            Major General John Buford's final words on his deathbed.

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