Popularity and Boardgaming

[maian]

Why are board games and miniature games not popular? I was hoping in high school Id find somebody that shares any remote interests in me. I cant find any.
Game nights at my favorite LGS never seem as big as they have been or what Id hope.

Why is war gaming, miniatures and just games like that so not popular? Why is it even so dead on a teen level too? Or am I the only one running into a problem like this?

[LRB]

Hmmm

It might be that history, knowledge there of, and being a skilled wargamer simply won't get you inside a cheerleaders panties, but being the football captain will.

I might be mistaken though

Teens are all about being cool, being seen to be cool, having the right clothes, a car and making it plain you are manly, is just more vital than providing evidence you might have handled WW2 better than several generals of the time.

Gamers exist, but we suffer from a lack of "coolness" I guess. As you get older, this might be less important, but, as a teen, it has often been proven, that being overly "smart" is "uncool" witness the Bart Simpson syndrome.

When most of society is based on undereducated buffoons, it's just not easy being an outsider, ie not stupid.
It's further made a problem when a sports super athlete can make a mockery of your accademic success by earning millions just because he can play a recreational activity so much better than most. Doesn't matter if you have a Phd, when it comes to scoring.

There you have it.

[Salinator]

Aries,

Being "cool" differs from school to school. That football captain might be "cool" in a suburban school, but might have been regarded as somewhat of a "dork" in an inner city school.

Besides, I think just as many boys will enroll in a Home Ec class in an effort to "get into panties" as there are boys who join the football team for that very same reason.

I think that the reason that those games are not popular because it requires time and thinking, both which are hard to find in a young person's life. All the media and communication technologies available also sometimes serve to take away even more time. When I was young, I used to wake up extra early to play a game of chess with a friend at school before class started. Nowadays, the kids can even barely wake up because they stayed up all night watching MTV/talking on their cell phones/surfing the net.

[BarcelonaBlom]

LOL yeah I noticed that too... Chalk up another reason why I wanted to get away from High School/Home (at least the people I went to school with).

Here I can stand the antics a little more, since these people are fellow Marines, and are very professional at their jobs, no matter how "cool" they like to act (aka, act like the standard modern young person).

[LRB]

In as much as I still support my previous post here ...

But one reality of today, that was not present when board games ruled wargaming a bit more strongly in the 70's, is our society in general is a lot more rush rush go go hurry up and give it to me now oriented for nearly all age groups.

Finding a person willing to actually slow down their life to learn and or play a board game is not easy even if we're talking about an adult in their 30's or 40's.

How many people do you know, would aggressively turn off their cell phone "because they were playing a board game with their buddy and didn't want to be disturbed"? I doubt many can even intentionally turn off the infernal things.

We have so many devices that demand out attention. We have so many devices made solely so we don't need to wait. So much of our routine is based off of "why wait, get it faster".

Email, because snail mail requires you wait till it get's there the old way.
Cell phones, so you can be interupted no matter where you are.
News channels featuring sound bites, because no one really wants to listen for more than mere seconds.
PVRs because heaven forbid you should have to make time for a favourite tv show.
Downloading them, because even a PVR is not good enough.
Faster and faster burner drives, because god waiting 8 minutes is intolerable, you want it done in 4.
Fast food restaraunts, because even a microwave takes several minutes, and you want that food sooner.
Toll based express highways, because you can never drive faste enough.
Broadband ostensibly, because a web page that won't load immediately is apparently not sufficient.

Our culture, such as it is, has for a long time now been progressively conditioned to be unable to wait for anything, uninterested in anything that takes time and or effort.

The only people playing board games, are people that still remember, or yet still enjoy slowing down and relaxing.
Real time strategy games are more an indication that the person simply can't enjoy something slower if you ask me.

My ideal world, is a secluded cabin, and my massive library, and no road to my home. The only access, is a path that requires effort to traverse it
I would have a cell phone for emergencies, and likely little real access to the outside world. An internet connection so I could get what news I wanted to hear. But no junk in my mail box. No bustle outside my window.

Not going to happen though

To find a serious wargamer, you likely need to search for people that enjoy a slower pace.

[Siberian HEAT]

It depends on where you live, how big your school is, and what your expectations are.

Some ideas;

When I was in high school I used to keep a copy of PanzerBlitz on the top shelf of my locker so that if anyone knew what it was, they were probably a wargamer. Only had one person at my school ever reveal himself as such.

Buy some cheap older games, then sell them in the local paper. You might find some gamers that way, although they will almost certainly be older guys. Yet, they might know of clubs or groups of friends who play locally.

You might be able to find wargamers at LAN parties in your area. While other people are playing FPS shooters, there are inevitably people there playing Combat Mission or TOAW. Those people possibly also play board wargames.

Start a gaming club at your local library. Start small, and be ready with Euro-games just to get people interested. As word of mouth spreads it will call out some of the hardcore wargame guys.

I think the main force behind the lack of board wargamers in our youth has to do with electronic games. The same person who in the 70's would have been reading S&T to get a quick strategy fix is now playing Counterstrike (or whatever) on their PC with their friends. It's just a hell of a lot easier, and gives you the same (essentially) satisfaction of thinking your way through tactical problems. High school students suffer the same problems as most of us in the working world - too much work, not enough free time. I count myself as a pretty well traveled boardgamer, and I'd take a PC game over a boardgame 99 times out of 100. Would I rather spend an evening playing Diplomacy on a board with 5 other friends? Yes. Is that going to happen? Not likely LOL.

Maian, check out my wargamer survey. It might give you some insights into what to look for in a wargamer...

[Deathrider6]

I got into war-gaming when I was 13 through role-playing games. My friend Jim moved into the neighborhood and we quickly became friends. His parents totally hooked him up with all kinds of stuff, anything he wanted. Myself and my other friends had to beg our parents to get even so much as a $3.00 miniature.

Jim and a group of about four or five of us would play "Dungeons & Dragons" ever weekend. We also played "Car Wars", and "The Morrow Project". Jim also introduced us to war-gaming but I was the only one of the group that had much interest in it. The first war-game game I played was "France 1940". After that he introduced me to "Panzer Blitz". Unfortunately Jim past away and I had to find a new gaming partner. The first war-game I bought was "Battle of the Bulge".

The point is you may find yourself having to introduce a few people to war-gaming. Try to hook up with the role-playing gamers in your area as a few may also be interested in war-gaming. Hang around local hobby shops and bookstores. Look for people with an avid interest in history. You might be surprised who finds war-games interesting. In high school I played a lot of games with a guy you would never suspect would have any interest at all in war-gaming. He was a defensive lineman for our football team and a legendary bruiser around town. Myself I had blue hair, wore a motorcycle jacket and living on a skateboard.

[panzerkampfwage]

Well, Im 14 the star of the Middle School Football team and I love wargames. No one plays with me though. I want panzerblitz but i cant find it. I only watch the Military Channel so.....

[LRB]

Keep the faith dude, at 14 a lot of life has only just begun for you.

Given a chance, and you will get given chances for a lot of things, wargames will probably not always be as important.

I spent almost my whole teen experience in text books, then joined the infantry at 17.
I ended up bloody smart where science and history are concerned, but I don't understand sports, I can't fix a car, and have no idea what dating is like.

Not sure I made a bad choice or a good one to be honest.

[Siberian HEAT]

I want panzerblitz but i cant find it.

Check Ebay, they usually have dozens of em!

[LRB]

It should be mentioned, that MMP is working on the Panzerblitz 2 game, which likely will be like getting Panzerblitz and Panzer Leader in an updated better looking product.

There's talk it will go into pre order, and it might be worth the patience to hold out for this, rather than get a stale used copy off eBay even if it might be a fraction of the cost of the new option from MMP.

[Salinator]

To find a serious wargamer, you likely need to search for people that enjoy a slower pace.

There is no better way to say it.

[Overseer]

Aries,

Being "cool" differs from school to school. That football captain might be "cool" in a suburban school, but might have been regarded as somewhat of a "dork" in an inner city school.

Besides, I think just as many boys will enroll in a Home Ec class in an effort to "get into panties" as there are boys who join the football team for that very same reason.

I think that the reason that those games are not popular because it requires time and thinking, both which are hard to find in a young person's life. All the media and communication technologies available also sometimes serve to take away even more time. When I was young, I used to wake up extra early to play a game of chess with a friend at school before class started. Nowadays, the kids can even barely wake up because they stayed up all night watching MTV/talking on their cell phones/surfing the net.

Blah. I think this is completely off base and condescending.

There are just as many kids today who like to think and enjoy challenging problems, putting effort into their lives, etc. There were plenty of people "back then" that couldn't be bothered spending a single minute of their day thinking.

It's the classic "it was better back then" BS that pops up everywhere and is very rarely at all substantiated.

[gobeavs]

Blah. I think this is completely off base and condescending.

There are just as many kids today who like to think and enjoy challenging problems, putting effort into their lives, etc. There were plenty of people "back then" that couldn't be bothered spending a single minute of their day thinking.

It's the classic "it was better back then" BS that pops up everywhere and is very rarely at all substantiated.

I don't know how it was "back then", but I don't think his comments were too off-base for today's world. I'm a senior in a HS of about 1000 students, and we don't have any wargaming group to speak of that I have found, and I'm in the nerdy group (if that helps any). Our chess club all but dissolved, also. I think there are some Magic: TG players but I don't really consider that wargaming.

I've kind of got a chip on my shoulder about our public education system and how it deals with "less motivated" teens, though. So maybe I'm overly harsh on our generation of slackers.

[BarcelonaBlom]

Blah. I think this is completely off base and condescending.

There are just as many kids today who like to think and enjoy challenging problems, putting effort into their lives, etc. There were plenty of people "back then" that couldn't be bothered spending a single minute of their day thinking.

It's the classic "it was better back then" BS that pops up everywhere and is very rarely at all substantiated.

That could be a valid point but it cancels each other out, not makes what we are saying condescending. But you also need to look at a discipline point of view, sorry but I'm hitting the high times of my generation.... and I have to say my generation is for the most part kidlike and sometimes moronic in their actions. Not knocking them, there are others out there, and I really have to deal with it, I mean we are making a living, and rising to the challenge of careers and whatnot, but I strongly dislike how selfish and self-consumed that modern society is, it ties in with complaints I've been having during and since high school. People (all ages in fact, because there are those out there that haven't) need to grow up. I know they can't but they need to.

Sorry to get on a rant guys, but as a 19 year old that is automatically grouped with my peers (ironic I know) I hate when I get insulted by older people because they assume that I am just as immature as a majority of my peers. It annoys me to know end. But I've been blessed (cursed?) with an immense amount of maturity and common sense.

Probably why I'll never find a girlfriend, most are just to "modern" for me...