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  • Originally posted by Karri View Post
    I'm sure you'll eventually try replacing East with West. Then you can say you are advancing when you are retreating. As for backstabbing ally attacking country, well hate to break this to you but you attacked us an we were never allied.
    And just how did your DOW against us constitute and attack on you?

    And while you may not have been fighting along side us you certainly benefited from cooperating with us.
    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

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    • Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
      Well, the Strategic picture for 1941 was definitely far different than in the historical year. While North Africa could very well be said to have been historical, I think that the British have definitely been pressed harder and from more directions than they ever were in the historical year.
      That was kind of the idea.
      Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

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      • That is interesting. I think perhaps you had unrealistic expectations of what Germany could have done with the alternate strategy you are pursuing.

        Purist made it abundantly clear that this game features LOGISTICAL constraints and restrictions on how long units can attack before becoming spent. Those limitations are what is affecting the game much as it would have in the real world. Most WWII games do not have such limitations and playing them leads to unrealistic conclusions about axis capabilities

        Did you guys really think the Soviet Union would sit idly by and let the Axis flank them to the South via Turkey?


        Purist - Any chance of a general update for those of us in the peanut gallery.
        Last edited by The Purist; 04 Feb 10, 08:53.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by AdrianE View Post
          That is interesting. I think perhaps you had unrealistic expectations of what Germany could have done with the alternate strategy you are pursuing.

          Purist made it abundantly clear that this game features LOGISTICAL constraints and restrictions on how long units can attack before becoming spent. Those limitations are what is affecting the game much as it would have in the real world. Most WWII games do not have such limitations and playing them leads to unrealistic conclusions about axis capabilities

          Did you guys really think the Soviet Union would sit idly by and let the Axis flank them to the South via Turkey?


          Purist - Any chance of a general update for those of us in the peanut gallery.
          Believe it or not we had no intention of attack the Russians.
          Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

          Comment


          • Originally posted by The Land View Post
            And I wouldn't count you out just yet - while it's not going well, both the Turkish and Russian fronts are still in play and big progress on either would change the strategic picture markedly.
            I hear you, and I'm still in the game, but "big progress" is difficult to see happening. I was the Axis player that predicted the Red Army attack, but I was mystified to see the Reds escape encirclement in Galacia. Its as if our Panzers are playing waltzing Matilda, and its hard to see them pulling off a real Blitz.
            "Why is the Rum gone?"

            -Captain Jack

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            • Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
              I hear you, and I'm still in the game, but "big progress" is difficult to see happening. I was the Axis player that predicted the Red Army attack, but I was mystified to see the Reds escape encirclement in Galacia. Its as if our Panzers are playing waltzing Matilda, and its hard to see them pulling off a real Blitz.
              Nickolai Noodleski ponders. Great job we fled into a swamp to capture it for the motherland. Hope mum[ escaped the Fascists. When I get home I should have some hot cabbage soup.
              How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
              Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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              • Originally posted by tsar View Post
                Believe it or not we had no intention of attack the Russians.
                I believe it. I'm really looking forward to both yours' and the Soviet's post game AAR.

                Now - let's get back to the political/idealogical two step!

                Where did we leave off?
                "War is sorrowful, but there is one thing infinitely more horrible than the worst horrors of war, and that is the feeling that nothing is worth fighting for..."
                -- Harper's Weekly, December 31, 1864

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                • Originally posted by tsar View Post
                  And just how did your DOW against us constitute and attack on you?

                  And while you may not have been fighting along side us you certainly benefited from cooperating with us.
                  I understand your trying to keep us all in order. Karri is a dutiful CW advisor.

                  What we need is an up to date list of who is who - but the CW certainly knows who you and Exorcist are tied to!
                  "War is sorrowful, but there is one thing infinitely more horrible than the worst horrors of war, and that is the feeling that nothing is worth fighting for..."
                  -- Harper's Weekly, December 31, 1864

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Twitter3 View Post
                    I understand your trying to keep us all in order. Karri is a dutiful CW advisor.

                    What we need is an up to date list of who is who - but the CW certainly knows who you and Exorcist are tied to!
                    To make it clear: the Polish Guy, the Finnish Guy and the Possessed South American Quadruped are the Good guys!

                    Everyone else, who is not on your team, is a member of Uncle Joe's team; aka the pretty decent guys.

                    Comment


                    • I'll admit that this has been the most *interesting* game I've seen in years. Watching the strategies develop for all three teams is interesting indeed. While I know everything that is going on, it is particularly interesting to see the views of of the teams, who have only partial knowledge. It is easy for me to see how perceptions do not always match reality and how frustration can build from those misperceptions (seen on all sides). I also have to be careful not to let slip too much info on what is going on over the hill, as they say.

                      It is very, very interesting.

                      Take for example Greece. I was scratching my head at how the Greeks and Brits *just* managed to get themselves set in the mountains in time to halt the initial German drive. My first question was why couldn't this have happened in the OTL. A quick review of the Greek campaign answered the question. In short the answer was that the overwhelming mass of the Greek army was facing Albania or Bulgaria in April 1941. However, the Germans swept into southern Yugoslavia and then south through undefended country between the two Greek concentrations. All that was in their way was three British divisions and the German drive to Thesalonike soon isolated the Greeks and they surrendered. There were no large formation left to rebuild a line farther south with British help.

                      In our little game, the Greeks were free to begin marching to good terrain from day one and the British (not weakened by a Dunkirk) had the divisions ready to send in to help. Still,... it was a "just in time" moment. Many good Greek divisions (if not most) were lost and if the British had decided on not supporting Greece, it would have fallen within a few more weeks or perhaps a month or two at most.
                      The Purist

                      Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Demon_Llama View Post
                        To make it clear: the Polish Guy, the Finnish Guy and the Possessed South American Quadruped are the Good guys!

                        Everyone else, who is not on your team, is a member of Uncle Joe's team; aka the pretty decent guys.
                        I'm gonna start calling this guy Mountbatten... ie- the (reasonably) likable snob

                        Kidding!
                        "Why is the Rum gone?"

                        -Captain Jack

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by AdrianE View Post
                          ...Purist - Any chance of a general update for those of us in the peanut gallery.
                          Yup,... I'll take care ithat this weekend
                          The Purist

                          Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by The Purist View Post
                            In our little game, the Greeks were free to begin marching to good terrain from day one and the British (not weakened by a Dunkirk) had the divisions ready to send in to help. Still,... it was a "just in time" moment. Many good Greek divisions (if not most) were lost and if the British had decided on not supporting Greece, it would have fallen within a few more weeks or perhaps a month or two at most.
                            Was Commonwealth good fortune with convoys and reinforcement a factor here?

                            And do some of the German problems stem from failing to destroy much of the British army in the Battle of France?

                            Is there a basic issue that the game models the problems Germany had historically (supply, logistics, resources) but doesn't mode the problem the Allies had historically (complacency, the unexpected impact of mechanized warfare, the Greek political leadership completely mis-deploying their troops)

                            Anyway it is a very enjoyable game to take part in - thank you to all the other players and most particularly to The Purist. I've spent many bus journeys pondering the strategic situation :-)
                            My board games blog: The Brass Castle

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by The Land
                              Was Commonwealth good fortune with convoys and reinforcement a factor here?
                              No so much. Because the British only lost five divisions reduced in France they were able to send four additional divisions to Africa early on. This had a knock on effect. Instead of replacing nine or ten divisions (the rough historical equivalent) they need only replace five. The five extra replacement points could be used to expand the army by five new divisions, thus creating more divisions for deployment overseas. The lack of a credible German invasion threat meant the British could make do in England in 1940 with a smaller garrison (but it must be larger than the Med forces), only large enough to deal with an airborne attack. Add to this the fact the British are not likely going to make similar strategic errors as their historical counterparts and they should come out of late 1940 ahead of the OTL.

                              Originally posted by The Land
                              And do some of the German problems stem from failing to destroy much of the British army in the Battle of France?
                              Some,Ö but recreating the battle of France is almost impossible. Some players do not even send a BEF to France at all,Ö insane in my view. This means no British losses at all and an earlier fall of France. A BEF in France, with a bit of luck, can actually last into the early winter of 1940-41 (really pissing off the Germans),Ö but such a long campaign can be tough on the British if they stay stuck in.

                              Originally posted by The Land
                              Is there a basic issue that the game models the problems Germany had historically (supply, logistics, resources) but doesn't mode the problem the Allies had historically (complacency, the unexpected impact of mechanized warfare, the Greek political leadership completely mis-deploying their troops).
                              The doctrine issue is covered by the CW and French being on the poorest combat tables early in the war. They improve with time (they get a better table in the desert) The mech warfare issues are harder to model. The French army is still there, it is not offensively powerful but does have defensive strength. You canít model having the strongest German attack hitting the weakest allied sector and the French will continue to mask the German penetrations until they collapse.

                              If Greece is not attacked by Italy, why would the Greek army pile up on the Albanian border? The neutral Greek deployment is fairly evenly divided along the northern borders.

                              If the option for allied production is turned on (as opposed to the reinforcement track), it opens up plenty of options for the allies (especially in the air). It doesnít unbalance the game but the Germans need to have a good strategy and stick to it against an experienced player. Likewise the British need to be cautious, making the wrong decisions in 1940 can make 1941 very tricky. Too many losses prior to the US entry can make the CW a spent force later in the game.

                              I turn on most of the historical options as they really give one the flavour for the problems faced by all sides. Iíll play any side in this game given the normal historical parameters.
                              The Purist

                              Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by The Land View Post
                                Was Commonwealth good fortune with convoys and reinforcement a factor here?

                                And do some of the German problems stem from failing to destroy much of the British army in the Battle of France?

                                Is there a basic issue that the game models the problems Germany had historically (supply, logistics, resources) but doesn't mode the problem the Allies had historically (complacency, the unexpected impact of mechanized warfare, the Greek political leadership completely mis-deploying their troops)

                                Anyway it is a very enjoyable game to take part in - thank you to all the other players and most particularly to The Purist. I've spent many bus journeys pondering the strategic situation :-)
                                The Land -

                                As we are still in game mode, I will say that once the game is over the CW will share some of its intell reports and communiques to shed some light on your questions. We've still got a long way to go to knock the Germans down for the count.
                                "War is sorrowful, but there is one thing infinitely more horrible than the worst horrors of war, and that is the feeling that nothing is worth fighting for..."
                                -- Harper's Weekly, December 31, 1864

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