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  • #16
    So much for that bright idea

    Okay, am pretty happy with our Case White, FG/RD plan for now then - and as we can't plan minutiae from our lofty perch, I think we're good to steal a march on the nascent SHAEF and STAVKA - as, I think, we did historically
    Captain Khryses, Silver Star Omnilift Wing

    Comment


    • #17
      Why are Politics Important to the Germans

      Activating the Minor Axis Nations

      More strategic ingredients for your pondering.

      While Germany may not care about its political standing the neutral axis-friendly nations do. The resons for reaching for and attaining high political points (status) is to attract the Hungarians, Romanians, Bulgarians to the cause. They all have troops Germany needs and help garrison conquered countries and fight partisans with German help.

      Italy - if the political point total is 60 or above Italy will not surrender until the allies enter Rome itself. Italy possesses a large rmy of relatively weak forces but it mech and motor units are handy. The rest of the army is of value due to it vast size. It can really take the stress off German garrisons but cannot fight the allies unsupported.

      Hungary - will join the axis when the PPs reach 55 on or after I/9/40. While the units are mediocre they do help with garrisons and fleshing out the front to some degree.

      Romania - will join the axis when the PPs reach 60 on or after X/10/40. It possesses a larger army than Hungary and performs much the same role.

      Bulgaria - will join the axis at the same time as Romania. It has a small, poor army that cannot venture far from home but it is available to help against the Yugoslav partisans.

      Spain and Turkey - both pro-axis neutrals will join the Germnas when the PPs reach 75. A tough propsition and things have to be going extremely well for this to happen but if it does, there are all kinds of possibilities.

      Other Political Events

      Her are some other modifiers to help you reach those magic numbers:

      Enter Paris: +5 PP
      Enter London: +10 PP
      Enter Egypt: +3 PP
      Enter French N. Afr: +3 PP
      Enter Suez: +2 PP
      Enter Moscow +5 PP
      Enter Soviet Pers. Centre: +1 PP
      Enter Soviet Res. Centre: +1 PP

      The allies recapture/reversing of the above has the same negative effect on PPs as does liberating minors, entering Rome, causing Italian surrender, etc.
      The Purist

      Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

      Comment


      • #18
        Ok, slice the Poles open with the armour. We should be able to take Warsaw in 2 weeks without any losses. move all the cadres to the French border on the first turn. We should be able to have 2-3 per hex which will stop any French attack. After we beat Poland transfer all the armour and all but 20 infantry divisions to the west then send the cadres in to be upgraded.

        That way we will still have those IRP's to use during the actual campaign.
        Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

        Comment


        • #19
          A Final Decision?

          tsar, Khryses, Exorcist,

          Since this is just the Tutorial,... please give me your final decision on the IRPs by 2100 (-7 GMT) tonight (Nov 23) I will then execute Case White as directed.
          Last edited by The Purist; 23 Nov 09, 18:44.
          The Purist

          Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

          Comment


          • #20
            Am shifting my recommendation to match tsar's - it sounds a lot like what I was trying to do, only actually workable

            Not sure that we have a CoS at the moment - happy not to be he owing to my lack of experience.
            Captain Khryses, Silver Star Omnilift Wing

            Comment


            • #21
              Alrighty then.

              Case White will be executed at 2000 hrs (-7 GMT). The west front will not expend any IRPs but the defences will be properly manned by the available cadres. Cadres not needed for garrison duties will ove to the training centres for further development.

              Results of III/9/39 German moves and combat will be posted later this evening.
              The Purist

              Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

              Comment


              • #22
                Well ****, I missed out on a lot, my timezone seems to be out of sync with everyone elses....

                I was going to strongly recommend a more measured approach in Poland.

                1- its too late to invite the Russians to move in and cut off the escape of the bulk of the Poles fleeing to the West

                2- Our position in the West looks much stronger than I thought possible.

                I wanted to save some men for the Swiss option, which looks more needful now than ever.
                What does it mean, when an operation "counts as an attack on Belgium"?

                Production;
                I want the following- 40% airpower, 20% naval (subs and landing craft) and 40% Army. Air-landing and mountain troops will be crucial.

                As I suspected, the Italian option is a non-starter, so we need to know exactly how tough the Maginot line is. Anyone feel up to a major raid in February?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Regarding Switzerland

                  The Swiss Bypass

                  Switzerland has 12 x 5-5 Infantry div plus 6 x (7)-1 Static divisions. As you can see from the deployment two divisions are deployed at the intersection of the Swiss-French-German border in the mountains. This position is also partially covered by the Rhine River to the northeast, cutting the attack strength of any German troops across the river by 1/2.

                  << Swiss peace time deployment.>>



                  The strongest ground assault that could be managed in the spring of 1940 would be by 8 x 10-8 Pz Divs for an attack of 60 versus 20, or 3:1 odds. The mountains apply a -1 modifier to the result but German air support would counter this with a +1. The CRT (#1) used by the Germans gives the potential result as:

                  Dr
                  1----AEx
                  2----AEX
                  3----BR
                  4----BR
                  5----DR
                  6----DR

                  An AEx (Attacker Exchange) results in losses to the Germans and no effect to the Swiss. 1/3 chance.

                  A BR (Both Retreat) would retreat the Swiss into the mountains to the northwest. The Germans would also have to retreat or suffer losses and be able to advance into the hex. 1/3 chance.

                  A DR (Defender Retreat) would retreat the Swiss into the mountains to the northwestwest. 1/3 chance.

                  Attacks in 1939 or before the spring of 1940 would be on a worse CRT (#2) and at lower odds due to weather effects on Armour/Mech units. The same attack by 8 x 6-5 Inf Divs would generate odds of only 36:20 (perhaps rounded up to 2:1). The results would Ae (Attacker Eliminated); 1/3, AEx; 1/3, BR; 1/3

                  If successful the Germans gain a hex that would be faced by a 22+ defence from the French in the Maginot Line (4 x 3-4 inf divs plus 10 for the flanked ML fort at a minimum). To the west the Swiss would surely reinforce their two divisions with two more for a 40+ defence. The hex to the southwest would be held by 24-28 defence and the river line to the south would be occupied by the remaining divisions of the Swiss army. It can be expected that the French will heavily reinforce the mountains in western Switzerland via rail and road movement allowing the Swiss to retreat to them.

                  The attack would likely be jammed up very shortly in poor terrain where the strongest German units would be slowly ground to pieces in low odds attritional attacks against the strongest positions in western Europe (the southern Maginot Line and Swiss Alps).

                  Then there is the issue of the -20 political points for the attack on Switzerland. Any hope of getting Spain and Turkey into the war would be lost and even the Hungarians, Romanians and Bulgarians may not join in for Barbarossa.

                  Operation not recommended (if only on military grounds).
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by The Purist; 23 Nov 09, 23:48.
                  The Purist

                  Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    The Maginot Line

                    Maginot Line Forts

                    MLFs have a defence strength of 10 from the front if unoccupied and 20 if occupied. They have a defence of 5 from the flank/rear if unoccupied and 10 if occupied. Occupied hexes add the strength of the units to the defence.

                    MLF and the units in them ignore retreat results.

                    Thus, for example, 4 x 3-4 Inf Divs in the Maginot Line opposite Saarbrucken would have a defence of 32.

                    If airborne troops are used against an MLF, it is treated as being attacked from the rear and if the paras survive and the the results are positive, they can force a retreat. That same hex would have a defence of 22.

                    Eban Emaul

                    The Belgian fort at Liege works just like an MLF except a para drop reduces the fort to zero strength.
                    The Purist

                    Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Can we have a précis (like those great ones above) on the Italian Option?
                      Captain Khryses, Silver Star Omnilift Wing

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Well well, it looks as if Switzerland is a physical impossibility. Its a shame... the back door from Austria is as open as I thought it might be, but a nation that won't quit until it's last Div is eliminated was meant to be left alone.

                        And the Maginot forts are nearly as bad, which seems to leave us with the historic routine, or does it?

                        Splitting Norway with the Reds could also work in our favor... but do you really want to trust them with Narvik?

                        Gents, have you already allocated our builds for the rest of the year? Looks like we have 3 Infantry divisions that need patching up.
                        Last edited by The Exorcist; 24 Nov 09, 01:07.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Switzerland is a very tough proposition. Considering their desire to remain neutral I can see why they have blocked the path in both directions near the French-German border. Would do to be open to criticism of favouritism.

                          The Production Cyle will take place at the end of 9/39 (or 0/10/39). Germany will begin with a pool of 90 Prod Pts plus the output of its 18 Manufacturing Centres. Right now the Economic Mulitiple is two so the 18 Mfg Ctrs are x 2 for an additional 36 points. Finally, the Germans add in any looting from captured and occupied capitals (perhaps Warsaw if IV/9/39 goes well). Germany will likely have 90+36+2 = 128 Prod Pts.

                          Rebuilding an infatry div costs about 2 PPs and take two or three cycles. Plenty of points for other items (including the big ticket items like u-boats and air craft). More on all this later.
                          The Purist

                          Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Airborne Operations

                            In order for German Para Regt’s, Air Landing Divs and Italian Para Reg’ts to be used for air assaults they must be removed from the map and placed in a planning cycle on a particular front (west south or east) that last four weeks along with the Air Transport Points (ATPs) that will carry them. After the four week period the units may launch air assaults within a twelve hex range of the frontline.

                            If the assault is successful and the enemy forced from the hex the airborne units will take counter form and the map. They do not control the hex they are in, block supply or retreat until the end of the weekly turn so some care must be taken in selecting targets. If an airborne unit is out of supply at the end of the weekly turn that they make an assault they will be eliminated. ATPs are subject to attrition and may be lost during the assault.

                            Once on the ground the airborne units can be removed from the map again to start the planning cycle over again on following turns. If three German 2-5 para reg’ts or two Italian 1-4 para reg’ts are stacked together in the same hex at the start of a turn they may form a 7-5 and 3-4 para division respectively. These divisions breakdown into their reg’ts as soon as they begin the planning cycle. In order for a German 4-5 Air Landing Div to make an assault each must be accompanied by a para reg’t. With stacking limits (4 units) this means that a maximum air assault on any hex may consist of two 4-5 AL div and two 2-5 para reg’ts for 12 attack factors.
                            The Purist

                            Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Can the Italian units be pre-loaded?
                              I know it probably hopeless, but I keep trying to think of ways to make those guys seem useful, somehow.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Pre-loaded? The paras? Well yes,... but only in the south front (Med) so they can be ready to go as soon as Italy enters the war. They need German ATPs but you can transfer them south before Italy enters the war as well. The movement of the Italians is limited while at peace. This allows for adopting better defensive positions in Africa and redeploying some troops in Italy to ports or the border with Yugoslavia. No sea movement though.
                                The Purist

                                Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

                                Comment

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