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  • Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa - Turn 3 Orders

    Greetings Generals,

    To keep things a little more organized, I'm going to split the turn updates into two new threads per turn - one for orders and general discussion, the other strictly for decisions (since decisions take up a lot of space all on their own).

    Remember that orders should be in by Saturday.

    This thread is also where I'll post the video (tonight) for the new update, so check back in for that.

    A few quick reminders on game-play:
    • Orders need to be handed in by the FM in charge of their AG. It saves me the time in trying to locate exactly what players want - I won't go digging through the threads trying to find them - and spares my inbox (which is already 90% full).
    • This also means players should talk with their superiors to make sure everyone is on the same page. I'm going to go with what they tell me, unless otherwise noted. If I don't get orders, I'll play the turn my way to keep from holding everything up.
    • Every division on the map can act independently of the others, regardless of how many units are in a hex. Stacks are just for visual organization. It is actually better in most cases to spread your units out a bit to avoid encirclement and to allow you more attack modifiers on the offensive.
    • I will try to follow your commands as closely as possible, but be aware that some units will make attacks of opportunity after their orders are finished if movement allows.
    • Likewise, units can make small adjustments after their orders are complete. For example, I will automatically adjust HQ placement to ensure units remain in command at the end of the turn.


    Because of the image limits per post, I'll have separate posts for the maps of each AG - with small counters as well as large ones.

    Previous Turn Battle Notes:
    • The first attack on Lvov failed due to the narrow front, terrain, and dug-in defenders. However, mechanized units did cut Lvov off from the east, presenting the chance to assault again later, and offering the chance for a large encirclement of the remaining Soviets in the Lvov pocket.
    • The newly deployed units, such as the 2nd Hungarian Cavalry, were too exhausted from their recent arrival to do much more than start moving. Next turn, I am assured, they should be more mobile.
    • 16th Motorized and 14th Panzer advanced up further to cut off the Przemysl survivors from Lvov.
    • Resistance along most fronts is broken at the moment, with survivors retreating rapidly or being encircled. AGN, AGC, and AGS each have a pocket of divisions that can be eliminated next turn, amounting to a total of 17 (!!) divisions ready to be eliminated. Well done.
    • Currently, the biggest remaining pocket is centered on Bialystok - the Red 10th Army and 6 depleted divisions are holed up in the town. They won't last long.
    • Romanian divisions are very inferior, even to the Red Army. Our allies possess neither the strength, will, nor numbers to effectively fight as well as the Wehrmacht. Be aware of this vulnerability.
    • Oil reserves are getting low, and may lead to interruptions for offensive operations. To increase the pool we will have to capture more forward supply bases soon (to decrease wear and fuel spending on our trucks) and work on increasing supply back home.
    • Currently, we have around 4 days (1 turn) of full fuel left for each AG (though each AG has its own separate fuel reserve). Further fuel supplies should be coming soon - especially once our logistics catch up - but be warned that there may be intermittent pauses for our panzers in the near future.


    Previous Turn Overview:
    Last edited by Daemon of Decay; 29 Feb 16, 16:44.

  • #2
    Current Map AGN



    Daily Summary AGN:

    Last edited by Daemon of Decay; 29 Feb 16, 16:38.

    Comment


    • #3
      Current Map AGC



      Daily Summary AGC:

      Last edited by Daemon of Decay; 29 Feb 16, 16:39.

      Comment


      • #4
        Current Map AGS



        Daily Summary AGS:

        Last edited by Daemon of Decay; 29 Feb 16, 16:39.

        Comment


        • #5
          OK, my impressions concerning AGN.

          It's irritating that Kaunas has not fallen yet (we're behind the historical schedule). OTOH it cannot hold out, and we're going to obliterate a 5-division pocket.
          In that area, the 12nd Infantry stack should enter Kaunas, then one of the divisions should turn N (to cover that end of the enemy pocket) and the other three should push on along the rail line towards the position of the 5th Rifle.
          The 122nd and 123rd, together with the four divisions of the 18th Army (including 1st), should as mentioned destroy the pocket. The 290th and 269th Infantry should NOT, instead they should keep going NE in support of the PzG (to which they belong).

          To the N, the other divisions of the 18th Army should regroup and push on towards Riga, as before.

          The interesting question is what to do with the PzG. I'm sure its commander will have his own ideas. The way I see it, there is a second option, besides the obvious continuation of the penetration strategy towards Jakobstadt (destroying the 2nd Tank, an Airborne Brigade, and other enemy units as they go).
          The alternative would be to detach the 8th Panzer and 36th Motorized for a straight quick blitz to the E, with a view of overrunning the enemy 11th Army HQ, while the rest of the PzG groups up and continues towards Jakobstadt.
          This would split our mobile forces and as a rule I wouldn't recommend it. But OTOH the main axis of advance chosen last turn (towards Jakobstadt) sees a concentration of enemy troops, albeit weakened; the area in front of the 36th Motorized is less strongly held. On top of that, we might bag an enemy higher HQ.
          Michele

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Michele View Post
            OK, my impressions concerning AGN.

            It's irritating that Kaunas has not fallen yet (we're behind the historical schedule). OTOH it cannot hold out, and we're going to obliterate a 5-division pocket.
            In that area, the 12nd Infantry stack should enter Kaunas, then one of the divisions should turn N (to cover that end of the enemy pocket) and the other three should push on along the rail line towards the position of the 5th Rifle.
            The 122nd and 123rd, together with the four divisions of the 18th Army (including 1st), should as mentioned destroy the pocket. The 290th and 269th Infantry should NOT, instead they should keep going NE in support of the PzG (to which they belong).

            To the N, the other divisions of the 18th Army should regroup and push on towards Riga, as before.

            The interesting question is what to do with the PzG. I'm sure its commander will have his own ideas. The way I see it, there is a second option, besides the obvious continuation of the penetration strategy towards Jakobstadt (destroying the 2nd Tank, an Airborne Brigade, and other enemy units as they go).
            The alternative would be to detach the 8th Panzer and 36th Motorized for a straight quick blitz to the E, with a view of overrunning the enemy 11th Army HQ, while the rest of the PzG groups up and continues towards Jakobstadt.
            This would split our mobile forces and as a rule I wouldn't recommend it. But OTOH the main axis of advance chosen last turn (towards Jakobstadt) sees a concentration of enemy troops, albeit weakened; the area in front of the 36th Motorized is less strongly held. On top of that, we might bag an enemy higher HQ.
            The 16th Army hit a stumbling block on turn one due to some incredibly brave resistance by two Red Divisions. If it weren't liable to get the SD breathing down my neck, I'd recommend them for awards - and a swift kick in the ass of the 16th.

            That being said, those brave Russians are currently either dead or in prisoner camps, so the point is moot. Kaunas should fall in the next few days, cut off as they are and with the 16th already across the river.

            One thing to remember is just where you will be establishing your FSBs, and how well the defenders can hold out. Riga may be a tough nut to crack if the Red Army retreats to it and fortifies the town.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Michele View Post
              OK, my impressions concerning AGN.

              It's irritating that Kaunas has not fallen yet (we're behind the historical schedule). OTOH it cannot hold out, and we're going to obliterate a 5-division pocket.
              In that area, the 12nd Infantry stack should enter Kaunas, then one of the divisions should turn N (to cover that end of the enemy pocket) and the other three should push on along the rail line towards the position of the 5th Rifle.
              The 122nd and 123rd, together with the four divisions of the 18th Army (including 1st), should as mentioned destroy the pocket. The 290th and 269th Infantry should NOT, instead they should keep going NE in support of the PzG (to which they belong).

              To the N, the other divisions of the 18th Army should regroup and push on towards Riga, as before.

              The interesting question is what to do with the PzG. I'm sure its commander will have his own ideas. The way I see it, there is a second option, besides the obvious continuation of the penetration strategy towards Jakobstadt (destroying the 2nd Tank, an Airborne Brigade, and other enemy units as they go).
              The alternative would be to detach the 8th Panzer and 36th Motorized for a straight quick blitz to the E, with a view of overrunning the enemy 11th Army HQ, while the rest of the PzG groups up and continues towards Jakobstadt.
              This would split our mobile forces and as a rule I wouldn't recommend it. But OTOH the main axis of advance chosen last turn (towards Jakobstadt) sees a concentration of enemy troops, albeit weakened; the area in front of the 36th Motorized is less strongly held. On top of that, we might bag an enemy higher HQ.
              I agree with your alternative. Jakobstad will fall, eventually how can it not? The 8th Panzer and 36th Motorized can try to eliminate the 11th HQ. It should make things easier for our AG in general. Thank you for pointing it out. Now it's up to our commander if he agrees.
              "We have no white flag."

              Comment


              • #8
                Will we be getting a video on what our possible moves could be this turn? EX and I are curious as to how we can get several PG One Mobile Divisions out of the stacks and back to enveloping units to the East. I am also curious as to where my FSB is. I would love to move it up to Przemsyl when we break up the RA stack in front of it. I am also curious as to what movement I can get from my 4th Romanian and the Romanian units in 11th Army.

                Pruitt
                Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Michele View Post
                  (we're behind the historical schedule).
                  You ain't kidding. The idea here is to do better than Historical, and we are all doing much worse. Unless AGC gets Minsk this turn, so will they.

                  On the plus side, we at AGS are looking at scooping up 2 Army HQs and maybe another ten Divisions this turn, as well as Lvov (finally).
                  The problem is, my PG is thrashing around in a 5x6 hex area for 3 turns now.

                  Determined and highly effective Russian resistance seems to be the rule across the board, rather than collapse in even the most exposed areas. If this continues...

                  Earlier I suggested that AGS and AGN at first adopt outward paths that later converge to support AGC. A slow & steady Steamroller approach might win out, but only if AGC never deviates from a direct path to Moscow.
                  Shall we reconsider it?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                    Will we be getting a video on what our possible moves could be this turn? EX and I are curious as to how we can get several PG One Mobile Divisions out of the stacks and back to enveloping units to the East. I am also curious as to where my FSB is. I would love to move it up to Przemsyl when we break up the RA stack in front of it. I am also curious as to what movement I can get from my 4th Romanian and the Romanian units in 11th Army.

                    Pruitt
                    Yeah. I'm currently uploading the video - will take about an hour and a half on my terrible internet - but I made sure to give you guys some good visuals on movement range.

                    In simple terms, infantry units can move across around 2-3 hexes of open terrain and still be able to fight once at the end. I'd err on the side of caution and go with the 2 move 1 fight limit myself for them.

                    Panzers and motorized units can move anywhere they damn well please, really, as long as they have the fuel for it. You'll see in the video that moving back through friendly territory is dirt cheap - the AGN panzers can make it back to outside Konigsberg in just one turn.

                    The limit on their advances are logistics and HQ ranges - if they blitz off on their own, they'll end up outside of radio and petrol range. And HQ's can only really move roughly 10 or so hexes beyond their FSB, depending on the terrain and rail-lines.

                    I'll upload a copy of the manual for y'all to see as well, just so you can take a look at the nuances for the under the hood stuff, if you're curious. Look for that much later tonight or tomorrow.

                    Movement for the Romanians is similar to German infantry - maybe up to 3-4 hexes if terrain and weather permit, but only 2-3 if you want to fight at the end of your advance. Sometimes, if the terrain is very inhospitable (forests, swamps, and mountains), you might only be able to move one hex before you don't have enough AP to fight.

                    If you have specific questions about one or two divisions, please ask.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Right now I am interested in the strengths of the RA Garrison in Lvov and the RA ABN Div under the HQ unit by Tarnopol. I don't see the Infantry Divisions in 17th and 11th Armies moving far before they attack. My 4th Romanian Army units are trying to catch that RA Motorized Division before it regains strength, but it has outrun us so far. 3rd Romanian Army is trying to crowd the RA units without getting slapped.

                      If I give the Artillery card to 17th Army again, we might need to use it in three attacks. Would that be a problem?

                      Pruitt
                      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                        You ain't kidding. The idea here is to do better than Historical, and we are all doing much worse. Unless AGC gets Minsk this turn, so will they.

                        On the plus side, we at AGS are looking at scooping up 2 Army HQs and maybe another ten Divisions this turn, as well as Lvov (finally).
                        The problem is, my PG is thrashing around in a 5x6 hex area for 3 turns now.

                        Determined and highly effective Russian resistance seems to be the rule across the board, rather than collapse in even the most exposed areas. If this continues...

                        Earlier I suggested that AGS and AGN at first adopt outward paths that later converge to support AGC. A slow & steady Steamroller approach might win out, but only if AGC never deviates from a direct path to Moscow.
                        Shall we reconsider it?
                        Generals, I don't want you feeling poorly so early in the campaign.

                        One figure to remember is that captured and destroyed Soviet divisions might not be readily apparent, so I've decided to look up some facts and figures that should brighten your days.

                        Here is the comparison of numbers of units on the field of all types (infantry, armored, guns, etc.):



                        So we've made a pretty large dent in their numbers in just two weeks.

                        However, maybe this comparison of total casualties and losses is more impressive:



                        We're looking at a 10:1 ratio on the battlefield, and it's only going to get better in the coming week once we close those pockets.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                          Right now I am interested in the strengths of the RA Garrison in Lvov and the RA ABN Div under the HQ unit by Tarnopol. I don't see the Infantry Divisions in 17th and 11th Armies moving far before they attack. My 4th Romanian Army units are trying to catch that RA Motorized Division before it regains strength, but it has outrun us so far. 3rd Romanian Army is trying to crowd the RA units without getting slapped.

                          If I give the Artillery card to 17th Army again, we might need to use it in three attacks. Would that be a problem?

                          Pruitt
                          Cards have a deployment time and cost PP to use. I can switch them around, but you'll have to make a good case for why you need to give it to a new army - and understand that you'll want to keep it on them for a while.

                          However, the good news is that the 17th Army already has the artillery card deployed on it, so no worries there. Every one of its many divisions get that bonus.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Excellent! Now I could really use the strengths of the RA Garrison unit in Lvov and the RA 204th ABN Div under the RA 5th Army HQ!

                            Pruitt
                            Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                            Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                            by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Turn 3 Video

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