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  • The Japanese Army vs. ISIS

    The Imperial Japanese army, that is.
    A little bit of the Twilight Zone and here we are.


    It wsa a bit of a struggle, but I finally have the Division done up in as much detail as I can manage, and its even in a transitional state as I mentioned in that other thread.

    TO&E for 3rd IJA Div.

    Divisional Troops
    Divisional Headquarters (300) 40 vehicles, 100 horses
    Divisional Signals Unit (250) 30 vehicles, 200 horses
    Cavalry//Motorised Reconnaissance Regiment (900)
    HQ, 20 trucks/cars/MC.
    Ist Company; 20 x Type 95 light tanks
    2nd Company; 55 Vehicles (motorcycles & Kurogane cars)
    3rd Company; Cavalry- 250 horses, 230 men

    Tank Battalion-
    - 48 x Type 97 Tanks
    HQ; 3 x tanks, 1 x Type 1 Ho-Ha halftrack, 44 trucks, 4x motorcycle w/sidecar
    A Company; 15 tanks
    B Company; 15 tanks
    C Company; 15 tanks
    —Attached;
    4 x 105mm SP, Ho-Ni II *
    4 x type 88, 75mm AA, 2 HMG, 6 tractors, 24 vehicles, 225 men
    12 x 25mm AAA
    9 x 90mm mortars, 3 x LMG, 29 vehicles, 205 men
    PLUS-
    3rd Battalion, 34th Regiment (not Str.)
    1,100 men, 115 vehicles (many pinched from Recon, one Recon company left on horses, and other sources)

    Ordnance Detachment (50) 30 trucks, 40 horses
    Veterinary Detachment (50) 100 horses
    Decontamination Unit (60?) 20 x trucks



    Infantry Group
    Group Headquarters, commanding;

    Three Infantry Regiments, each comprised of;
    Regimental Headquarters & Train
    1,000 horses 2 x Tankettes
    Regimental Signals Company
    Pioneer Company
    Regimental Gun Battalion - with six75-mm guns in three Platoons of two guns each.
    —Attached units;
    9 x 90mm Mortars, 29 vehicles, 205 men12 x 25mm AAA
    2 x 75mm AAA, 1 x HMG, 2 tractors, 12 x vehicles, 100 men
    12 x 25mm AAA

    Three Infantry Battalions -

    The Strengthened Infantry Battalion
    Battalion Headquarters (3 Officers, 87 men)
    Battalion Train (4 Officers, 191 all ranks)
    Machine Gun Company*(1 Officer, 74 men) 8 x HMG
    Company Headquarters (1 Officer, 14 men)
    Four Machine Gun Sections, each (15 men)
    Infantry Gun Company (1 Officer, 119 men) 4 x 70mm
    Company Headquarters (1 Officer, 29 men)
    Four Sections, each (15 men)
    Ammunition Section (30 men)
    Anti-tank Company (1 Officer, 99 men) 4 x 47mm
    Company Headquarters (1 Officer, 9 men)
    Four Sections, each (19 men)
    Ammunition Section (14 men)
    Four Rifle Companies (6 Officers, 254 men), each comprised of;
    Company Headquarters (1 Officer, 28 men)
    Machine Gun Platoon (1 Officer, 23 men) 2 x HMG
    20-mm Cannon Platoon (1 Officer, 23 men)2 x 20mm
    Ammunition Platoon (16 men)
    Three Rifle Platoons, each
    Platoon Headquarters (1 Officer, 1 man)
    Grenade Discharger Squad (15 men)
    Three Rifle Squads, each comprised of 13 men (1 x LMG, 11 rifles)
    Total Strength of 1620 all ranks ( Officers and* men)

    Points of note
    There is no breakdown given for the subunits of the Machine Gun Company, the figures in italics are my suggested estimates.* To call this unit a Battalion is somewhat of an understatement as it is easily twice the size of the average Allied Battalion.
    The elements of the Battalion
    Machine Gun Company - each Section had one 7.7-mm heavy machine gun, supported by a fifth Ammunition Section.
    Infantry Gun Company - each Section had one 70-mm infantry gun, supported by a fifth Ammunition Section.
    Anti-tank Company - each Section had one 37-mm or 47-mm anti-tank gun, supported by fifth Ammunition Section.
    Rifle Company - along with the increased Battalion firepower the Rifle Companies also received their own support weapons.* The Machine Gun Platoon had two 7.7-mm guns and the Cannon Platoon two 20-mm anti-tank rifles.
    There are two descriptions of the Rifle Platoon, the above taken from a British summary of July 1944.* This shows the Platoon as similar to that of the Standard Battalion, but adds a couple of extra men to the Grenade Discharger Squad and gives it a fourth launcher.* An alternative version shows each Squad, Rifle and Grenade, at fifteen men, with a commensurate reduction in Company HQ strength.


    The Standard Infantry Battalion
    Battalion Headquarters (3 Officers, 34 men)
    Battalion Train (4 Officers, 106 men)
    Gun Platoon (1 Officer, 54 men) 2 x 70mm
    Machine Gun Company*(4 Officers, 170 men) 12 x MG
    Company Headquarters (1 Officer, 13 men)
    Three Machine Gun Platoons, each (1 Officer, 45 men)
    Ammunition Platoon (22 men)
    Four Rifle Companies (4 Officers, 177 men), each comprised of;
    Company Headquarters (1 Officer, 18 men)
    Three Rifle Platoons, each
    Platoon Headquarters (1 Officer, 1 man)
    Grenade Discharger Squad (13 men)
    Three Rifle Squads, each comprised of 13 men
    Total Strength of 1100 all ranks (28 Officers and 1072 men)
    Points of note
    Where included, the Mortar Platoon is credited with 1 Officer and 39 men serving two 90-mm infantry mortars.* There were two types of 90-mm mortar in service, the Type 94 weighing a mammoth 155 kg and the Type 97 which was 50 kg lighter.* Both models had a range of around 3800 metres.
    The elements of the Battalion
    Battalion Headquarters - the Japanese Battalion was typically commanded by a Major, assisted by a Captain, who was responsible for ordnance and chemical warfare duties, and a Lieutenant as Adjutant.* Headquarters included a number of senior NCOs, plus messengers who undertook the usual communications required without benefit of radios.
    Battalion Train - this included the horse drawn transport of the Battalion, plus its medical and veterinary officers.**
    Battalion Gun Platoon - served two Type 92, 70-mm infantry guns, which provided the Battalion with its own organic artillery.* The 70-mm was a heavy weapon for a light gun and had a range of over 2700 metres.* It could also be deployed as a mortar type weapon, to engage targets at close range using a high elevation, making it a valuable asset.
    Machine Gun Platoon - the Machine Gun Company served the standard Japanese medium machine gun, the Type 92.*
    At full strength, the Company had twelve guns, deployed in three Platoons of four guns each.*
    Ammunition Platoon - consisted of an NCO and twenty one men, probably split into three Squads of seven, sufficient for one Squad per Machine Gun Platoon.**When the Machine Gun Company operated eight guns rather than twelve, as mentioned above, the Platoon may have been expanded or served in a more general role within the Battalion.


    • 6th Infantry Regiment
    1st Battalion (Str)
    2nd Battalion (Str)
    3rd Battalion

    • 34th Infantry Regiment
    1st Battalion (Str)
    2nd Battalion
    3rd Battalion (is with the armored group)

    • 68th Infantry Regiment
    1st Battalion (str)
    2nd Battalion
    3rd Battalion



    Field Artillery Group
    Group Headquarters, commanding;
    Medium Artillery Battalion - with twelve towed 150-mm howitzers, divided into three Batteries with four guns per Battery. 50 trucks, 15 tractors

    Field Artillery Regiment (2300) 100 vehicles, 600 horses
    Regimental Headquarters & Train
    Two Battalions – each with four towed 75-mm guns and eight towed 105-mm howitzers, divided into three Batteries with four guns per Battery.
    *One 105mm battery transferred to the Tank group, the SPs.
    1st battalion; 4 x type 90 75mm guns, 4 x Type 92 long-range 105mm
    2nd Battalion; 4 x Type 90 75mm, 8 x Type 91 105mm How

    Engineer Regiment (900 men)
    Regimental Headquarters (85)
    Three Engineer Companies-
    A Co,; Bridging & boats. (3 Type 99 Pontoon Bridges, 21 trucks)
    -Exactly half the size of a unit that would support a Tank Division-
    (110 men)
    B Co; Standard, 8 x flamethrowers, 28 vehicles
    (220)
    C Co; Standard, 8 x flamethrowers, 300 horses
    (220)
    Material Company
    (265)

    Transport Regiment (1800)
    Regimental Headquarters
    Four Horse Companies, 2,000 horses
    Three Motor Companies, 300 trucks
    Armoured Car Company (7 x Sumida)


    Medical
    Medical Battalion
    Five Field Hospitals (1250) 75 vehicles/800 horses
    Water Purification Unit (120) 15 trucks



    Trucks— 1,075

    Horses—6950

  • #2
    First move will be posted soon, but I wanted to mention a few tactical points first;

    Sensible fire & maneuver tactics were not unknown to the IJA. it is how they defeated the Russians in 1904-5 and how they beat the Germans at Tsingtao in 1914. Furthermore, they were every bit as good as the Red Army was at infiltration tactics, attacking without artillery preparation in such a way that either lead to a close-range Banzai charge, or snipers and MG nests suddenly appearing everywhere at dawn making the follow-on attacks nearly impossible to deal with.
    And speaking of Banzai attacks; by and large, these were not common nor pre-planned until the later stages of the war when desperation was the rule of the day.
    What they were in practice was the result of the Japanese Soldier being taught to come to grips with the enemy and destroy him with his superior close-quarters fighting skills.... skills that they actually had drilled into them and served them well in China. Even against the larger and stronger UK and US troops the Japanese felt confident of winning hand-to-hand, and why not? Those long rifles and sword-like bayonets gave them pretty good reach, one must admit.
    There are also those Katanas carried by all the officers and some senior NCOs. They weren't just for show, altho that was 90% of it. Unsheathing one of those was the equivalent of non-verbal permission for what other armies might call Black Flag time.
    Lots of black flags where this war is happening...
    The Banzai-charge will happen almost inevitably when an enemy on the defense is less than 100 Meters away. In that case a sprint lasting seconds will carry them into the midst of the enemy, and their "inevitable" victory.

    I am not so concerned about ammo, even before we start taking things. I'm not even sure I will need to take much.
    A related point is the fact that these units will seem to be firing very sparingly , and they will by mid-east standards. When using bolt-action rifles and MGs firing from 30-round clips, the ol' 'spray & pray' option simply isn't there. So they concentrate on putting what rounds they have on target, rather than suppressing fire, they want something to show for their rounds instead of an effect. This even carries through to their use of artillery, even when they don't have to. Its as if they are disappointed with every round that does not give them a red splash of some sort...

    An advantage of this could be that the enemy will underestimate how many IJA troops they are facing, making the shock of the Banzai charge all the greater when it finally comes.

    Artillery is lacking, when it comes to big-bore guns. Japan did not have the economy to build the kind of monster guns that Germany did, so they built (what they thought of as) a lot of little ones. The 70mm Battalion gun came about because the Army disliked splitting manpower between medium mortars and field guns, so they got one weapon to do both jobs.
    We shall see if any of that works in practice here.

    Tanks-
    Even Italy could be said to have better tanks, on a yearly basis, but how you use it counts for more. Altho they used many on penny-packets for most of the war, Japan could and did concentrate their armor the same way other armies did. On Saipan they scrapped all the tanks they had together for one night time assault, and in China they had at least 3 Regiments in the field for various offensives. They never really seem to have decided on a final strategy, leaving commanders to make it up as they went.

    The gamut runs the spectrum shown in this Division. Tankettes are parceled out among the Infantry. Light tanks are in the Recon units. Without radios all they can do is back-stop the soft-skinned elements of the recon troops. The Medium tanks are organized as a Battalion with an infantry battalion at the start along with whatever other motorized support that could be organized around them. It probably won't last long as-is, but even in 1943 the IJA knew that other people had better tanks and tactics were evolving to deal with them.

    I'll have my 1st move ready for New Years. Yes, it will be a sneek-attack, what better way to get things started?

    Comment


    • #3
      Tank use will be interesting, but given that Japanese tanks could resist rifle fire and some of them could hold off 20mm fire, I'd anticipate that with proper tactics (IE infantry support only), the Japanese could get some service out of their tanks.
      Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

      Comment


      • #4
        Sounds good to me.

        Should we repost the map here to keep it all located in one place for reference early on?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
          Tank use will be interesting, but given that Japanese tanks could resist rifle fire and some of them could hold off 20mm fire, I'd anticipate that with proper tactics (IE infantry support only), the Japanese could get some service out of their tanks.
          I imagine they'd get torn up quickly. The terrain + strength of individual firepower means that almost any technical (or Jihadist with an RPG) is a terrifying threat to Japanese tanks.

          All you need is a tread removed or a damaged gun and they become a liability rather than an asset.

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, at middling ranges (250-500m) your average Jihadist would be hard pressed to get a reliable RPG hit. I'd say that so long as the armor laid back at 500m or so, it would be able to be effective. Certainly they'd be better than technicals when it comes to resisting or providing fire....since the crew wouldn't be wholly exposed and it would take more than a near miss with an RPG to cause casualties.

            I agree, they won't survive in close at all, and any modern tanks ISIS might have, along with good AT weapons, will take them out handily. But as mobile heavy weapons support vehicles they won't fare too badly. The few armed with 75mm guns will be in high demand for providing HE support, especially with the dearth of guns.....they'll be more like self-propelled direct fire artillery than tanks though.
            Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
              Well, at middling ranges (250-500m) your average Jihadist would be hard pressed to get a reliable RPG hit. I'd say that so long as the armor laid back at 500m or so, it would be able to be effective. Certainly they'd be better than technicals when it comes to resisting or providing fire....since the crew wouldn't be wholly exposed and it would take more than a near miss with an RPG to cause casualties.

              I agree, they won't survive in close at all, and any modern tanks ISIS might have, along with good AT weapons, will take them out handily. But as mobile heavy weapons support vehicles they won't fare too badly. The few armed with 75mm guns will be in high demand for providing HE support, especially with the dearth of guns.....they'll be more like self-propelled direct fire artillery than tanks though.
              For this kind of operation I would want the 57mm armed Chi-Has over the 47mm Shinhotos for the above reasons. The tanks would be used more like light SPGs or assault guns than tank-killers, the way they were originally intended. While the 57mm HE shell didn't have that great of a kill radius, it'll be more effective at neutralizing insurgents than a 47mm.

              The 105mm Ho-Ni II self-propelled artillery, on the other hand, I expect will be a real "impact" weapon-system. Those medium artillery rounds were absolutely devastating and ISIS has no real means of dealing with them, while their mobility makes for great firepower on the move.
              Divine Mercy Sunday: 4/21/2020 (https://www.thedivinemercy.org/message) The Miracle of Lanciano: Jesus' Real Presence (https://web.archive.org/web/20060831...fcontents.html)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BobTheBarbarian View Post
                For this kind of operation I would want the 57mm armed Chi-Has over the 47mm Shinhotos for the above reasons. The tanks would be used more like light SPGs or assault guns than tank-killers, the way they were originally intended. While the 57mm HE shell didn't have that great of a kill radius, it'll be more effective at neutralizing insurgents than a 47mm.

                The 105mm Ho-Ni II self-propelled artillery, on the other hand, I expect will be a real "impact" weapon-system. Those medium artillery rounds were absolutely devastating and ISIS has no real means of dealing with them, while their mobility makes for great firepower on the move.
                I wonder if our Japanese would be particularly 'enterprising', and use the Maintenance units attached to the Division to do field modifications of the tanks. It would become rather obvious that the Chi-Ha just isn't going to be effective, while the Ho-Ni II remains substantially useful. The Japanese have mountain guns, mortars, and their field guns are relatively small and lightweight. Mounting one on a Chi-Ha Chassis with the turret removed and chopped and welded into an open-topped casemate would give them a larger number of infantry support tanks, and the 47mm and its gear could be shoehorned onto the carriages of the gun mounts and used as portable defensive guns for taking out technicals at range.

                Specifically the Type 95 Lights are going to be utterly useless. But there are 90mm mortars, and the type could be converted in a week or two into 90mm mortar carriers with enough armor to withstand rifle and most MG fire. Being able to advance a mortar with the infantry for more responsive fire support would be quite useful. I say the mortar because it's so light you wouldn't have to do anything special other than remove the turret and weld the baseplate into the tank.....maybe some cutting for field of fire and the crew to more easily work their piece.

                With a little resourcefulness, and willingness to pull the tanks out of the line, the 95s could even reasonably mount the 70mm gun, or even the 75mm gun for direct fire support of infantry.
                Last edited by TacCovert4; 31 Dec 15, 01:45.
                Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                  Sounds good to me.

                  Should we repost the map here to keep it all located in one place for reference early on?
                  I will take care of that, I'll bring the two in that I think have relevance, however...

                  What we need for TAG is a hex or a grid-map of Iraq and Syria. I am using google maps but our volunteer umpire needs what he needs.
                  If anyone can help with that it would be very appreciated, I'll be runinng something myself this year.



                  Originally posted by BobTheBarbarian View Post
                  For this kind of operation I would want the 57mm armed Chi-Has over the 47mm Shinhotos for the above reasons. The tanks would be used more like light SPGs or assault guns than tank-killers, the way they were originally intended. While the 57mm HE shell didn't have that great of a kill radius, it'll be more effective at neutralizing insurgents than a 47mm.
                  Yeah, its a 3.5 pound shell vs a 6 pounder, and its odd but fewer 47mm rounds can be carried (120 vs 104). I was already thinking about that, and it turns out I don't have much choice. Those newer ones with the 47mm gun are relatively new and most went to other places, my estimate is that 2/3rds of the tanks will have the older 57mm gun, and the upload will be 2/3rds He. rounds in any case for both types, as that was the standard.
                  There is a conflict in MG loads too; either 2500 rounds or 3500, according to the source. It IS possible to get bogged down in too much detail.

                  One thing, would the newer tanks be in separate platoons, or function as platoon leaders?

                  Originally posted by BobTheBarbarian View Post
                  The 105mm Ho-Ni II self-propelled artillery, on the other hand, I expect will be a real "impact" weapon-system. Those medium artillery rounds were absolutely devastating and ISIS has no real means of dealing with them, while their mobility makes for great firepower on the move.
                  Yes, 105mm and not 75mm. I could not bend reality so far, the few SP anti-tank guns would never find their way to China. And I only allowed for 4, so they won't have a any influence outside the tiny mech unit.

                  Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
                  I wonder if our Japanese would be particularly 'enterprising', and use the Maintenance units attached to the Division to do field modifications of the tanks. It would become rather obvious that the Chi-Ha just isn't going to be effective, while the Ho-Ni II remains substantially useful. The Japanese have mountain guns, mortars, and their field guns are relatively small and lightweight. Mounting one on a Chi-Ha Chassis with the turret removed and chopped and welded into an open-topped casemate would give them a larger number of infantry support tanks, and the 47mm and its gear could be shoehorned onto the carriages of the gun mounts and used as portable defensive guns for taking out technicals at range.
                  Cool ideas, but it would have to be very crude field expedients, its only a 4-week campaign.

                  The 75mm field gun (3rd Div didn't have Mountain artillery) Type 90 was a hell of a nice gun, most of all for a 1930 design. Its also very handy having the same type in the various Regiments instead of a ding-dong assortment... there is enough of that as is.

                  And I have worked on some interesting tactics for my humble little vehicles, I think you will be entertained.
                  I am not terribly worried by the Technicals aside from the possible numbers. Sure, they are nearly as exposed as many of my own machines, but the really dangerous 23mm guns aren't going to be very accurate wheh fired from a Toyota weighing not much more than the gun itself.

                  The RPG will be a revelation, and a much sought-after item once the Sons of Nippon have seen it in action... and that will happen very soon.

                  My first move will be complex, it has to set the course for a (hopefully) successful campaign. I'll have some of it up tomorrow, and the rest the next day or so.

                  Onwards!


                  Maps, ask the Umpire how relevant they still are, but as we now know, an arc from Tikrit to Ramadi has been cleared of ISIS by Iraq.... at long last.

                  Old and odd-


                  Probably better, except for the SE part-

                  Last edited by The Exorcist; 31 Dec 15, 02:36.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Without a visual of the actual shells, I'd suspect that the 47mm high velocity gun weighs a bit more and takes up a bit more internal space than the 57mm low velocity gun. And that the shells are longer because of a larger casing.

                    Kind of like how the Panzer IIIN had a Low Velocity 75mm gun whereas it could only ever hold a 50mm High Velocity gun.
                    Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
                      Without a visual of the actual shells, I'd suspect that the 47mm high velocity gun weighs a bit more and takes up a bit more internal space than the 57mm low velocity gun. And that the shells are longer because of a larger casing.

                      Kind of like how the Panzer IIIN had a Low Velocity 75mm gun whereas it could only ever hold a 50mm High Velocity gun.
                      Oddly enough, I'm not terribly concerned about the tanks due to their armament, reliability, and speed.

                      Without any opposition, I wonder how many of the IJA tanks would break down driving from one side of Syria to the other. Once they're operating on bad terrain, in combat conditions - and being tracked by civilian-purchased drones and monitored by a cell phone network - I imagine they'll become too vulnerable to expose in any strong fight.

                      With limited repair ability, even a track hit by some insurgent with an AAA gun mounted on a Toyota (ironic) could represent a full loss.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        How effective will we consider banzai charges against irregulars with automatic rifles?

                        In WW2 you had the Garand as some amount of a leveling factor against a charge.

                        But if every US marine they were charging against had a combination of Thompson and BAR... I can't see many getting in too close.

                        I guess at night it would be more effective, as neither side will have much night vision equipment and will probably rely upon flares and such. And the IS fighters certainly will have less organization and discipline than US marines.

                        But charging across a field with a bayonet or katana against RPDs and AKs? Hoo-boy, that's gonna be costly.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                          But charging across a field with a bayonet or katana against RPDs and AKs? Hoo-boy, that's gonna be costly.
                          That's why I described them as I did.
                          And as for the tanks, with 25mm of armor on the front and sides and 12mm on the top & bottom (the Light tanks have half that) they are basically armored cars with tracks by modern standards. So, slow but with nice off-road mobility.
                          Its the other tanks that give me angst, despite the small numbers. The 95 Ha-Go has a MG in the turret that isn't a co-ax, its facing the wrong way and its a one-man turret.
                          The Tankettes are another problem, there are so few that I'd have to settle on the old or the new, and its complicated. The older 94 Te-Ke has just an MG, thin armor and throws its tracks when driven over the blistering speed of 22mph. However, it had a small trunk for running ammo up to troops pinned by enemy fire. The newer one is better in every respect except that it has no cargo hatch and it has a 37mm gun and no MG at all.
                          I think I'll just let the Umpire make a ruling on that.

                          And.... I have to tweak the TO&E.
                          I added up the numbers and I fell way short of the numbers Bob and TAG said I should have. The main thing will be to make all the Battalions the Strengthened type except the one with the tanks. I'll still be short, but things will be simpler and after I finalize it I will be free to make my first move.

                          Sometime today or tomorrow I should have it all done.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Turn the Tankettes into Mortar Carriers.....take the turrets off, a flat bit of steel as a crude shield for the front, angle it to 45deg, and mount a mortar on the back, with a pintle for an MG to be operated by the crew in a pinch. Keep them out of heavy fighting and deploy them as pairs to the Infantry Battalions to suppress ISIS positions on the attack.
                            Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
                              Turn the Tankettes into Mortar Carriers.....take the turrets off, a flat bit of steel as a crude shield for the front, angle it to 45deg, and mount a mortar on the back, with a pintle for an MG to be operated by the crew in a pinch. Keep them out of heavy fighting and deploy them as pairs to the Infantry Battalions to suppress ISIS positions on the attack.
                              Oh hell no!
                              I'm going in with what they had and I'll try my best to use it the way they did. All this other modification rigamarole can wait until later.

                              And I am not feeling as ballsy as I was before about posting my orders in he clear here, but I'll have the final TO&E up soon.

                              Comment

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